[anotherJack]

Can you clarify what skills and attributes are used in astral combat?

Attacker (dual natured or astral) Rolls:   Willpower + Astral Combat + Weapon Focus
Attacker (dual natured critter with Natural Weapon) Rolls:   Agility + Unarmed Combat
Defender (dual natured) Rolls:   Reaction + Dodge (dodge)
Reaction + Astral Combat(block/parry)
Defender (astral) Rolls:   Intuition + Dodge (dodge)
Intuition + Astral Combat (parry/block)
Defender (dual natured) using Full Defense (Full Dodge):   Reaction + Dodge + Dodge/Astral Combat
Defender (dual natured) using Full Defense (Full Parry):   Reaction + Astral Combat + Astral Combat
Defender (dual natured) using Full Defense (Gymnastics Dodge):   Reaction + Astral Combat + Dodge + Gymnastics
Defender (astral) using Full Defense (Full Dodge):   Intuition + Dodge + Dodge/Astral Combat
Defender (astral) using Full Defense (Full Parry):   Intuition + Astral Combat + Astral Combat
Damage Resistance (astral or dual natured):   Willpower + Mystic Armor

Source : the FAQ.

Now, two questions :
1) isn't it strange that astral agility (aka Logic) isn't involved anywhere in astral fight ? isn't it a bit unbalanced against [logic + willpower] traditions ?

2) Knowing that the full defense Gymnastic dodges uses the following pools :

What exactly is the dice pool used in the Full Defense option Gymnastic Dodge (p. 160, SR4A)?

Against ranged attacks, it would be Reaction + Gymnastics. Against melee attacks, it would be Reaction + Dodge + Gymnastics (if dodging) or Reaction + melee skill + Gymnastics (if parrying).

Is this pool normal ?

Defender (dual natured) using Full Defense (Gymnastics Dodge):   Reaction + Astral Combat + Dodge + Gymnastics

It seems paradoxal for several reasons :
- It means an astral perceiver will have a better defense than a projecting mage
- It's the only pool with 3 skills + 1 attribute

So my guess is that the secondth "+" should be a "/", what you think ?

[voydangel]

I would agree that the listed pools make astral combat un"fair" to traditions whose drain is linked to logic. But on the flip side, Logic seems to be the least "friendly" attribute to going astral, by definition. (Astral plane isn't exactly logical, imo). So - as much as I would prefer it to be more well balanced, I can totally see where this is pretty easy to explain away.

As for the other pools... well, I'm not sure, but I've always assumed that you always just used the better of either astral combat, dodge, or your melee skill when you're dual-natured, and you just get to use astral combat (or Astral Combat x2 - case pending) when you're fully astral. I was about to start going into all this and explaining what I thought they should all be, but I guess in the end, the only thing I have to say that relates directly to your question is:

Yes, I think it should say:

Defender (dual natured) using Full Defense (Gymnastics Dodge):   Reaction + Dodge/Astral Combat + Gymnastics

[anotherJack]

Thanks ^^

[Walks Through Walls]

Actually if you look at full dodge in your physical fights it is your attribute + dodge + dodge or appropriate skill so there are other instances where you add multiple skill to an attribute in the combat system. With the gymnastics dodge in a physical fight you get to add gymnastics to your die pool in either ranged or melee full dodge so it is the same game mechanic in both.

A dual being may have the advantage in what abilities they get to use, but they will be at a disadvantage in passes (usually) and not be able to keep up with a fully astral creature in movement. Besides a fully astral being could duck through a wall attack and then duck back out of the room in a moveby type maneuver and the dual being wouldn't even get an attack

[anotherJack]

No problem to add multiple skills to an attribute. The problem is I don't see why only this option would add 3 skills to the attribute. And it doesn't work like the classic gymnastic dodge, since we see that the gymnastic dodge doesn't allow 3 skills.
It's always one attribute plus two skills, actually it's the classic defense option (so one attribute against ranged attack, one attribute plus one skill against melee), plus one skill when you choose full defense. The second skill added can be dodge, or a weapon skill, or gymnatic, one of these three, but never two