[Critias]

If you're worried about Charisma being overpowered, there's always just a method of "use your highest attribute" as the base multiplier for Contacts, or your highest skill, or something along those lines, to reflect that being a professional at whatever it is you're good at is what's gotten you a reputation, some work experience, and professional friends.

[Bradd]

That's a pretty cool idea, Critias, and it might explain why those goblin rockers seem to have so many groupies.

[Critias]

The oddity then, of course, is when a silly min/maxed Troll with a 952 Strength has a ton of contacts for free, and the dedicated Face doesn't...but it seems like a quick fix for the "Woah, slow down Charisma!" crowd, at least.

[tbrminsanity]

The other problem I have with using skills is that skills are time sensitive.  They take years to develop.  Charisma on the other hand (assuming it is within "natural" limits) is innate.  This means naturally charismatic people will develop contacts over their entire lives (up to that point). 

Now having rules about making new contacts through skill rolls is another matter.

[Bradd]

Eh, people are developing the contacts over their lives just as they're developing the skills and Charisma. I don't see anything more "innate" about the attributes than skills, seeing as how you develop them the same way with BPs & karma. I tend to think of attributes more as "super skill groups" that cover an even broader range of ability.

[tbrminsanity]

Eh, people are developing the contacts over their lives just as they're developing the skills and Charisma. I don't see anything more "innate" about the attributes than skills, seeing as how you develop them the same way with BPs & karma. I tend to think of attributes more as "super skill groups" that cover an even broader range of ability.

How can you be certain that you developed that 3/3 Corporate Contact when you had a Negotiations skill of 5?  You can't.  But you can say that because of your history of being a charismatic person that an old college friend of yours eventually made his way into the corporate world becoming your 3/3 Corp contact.  Heck even knowledge skills are based off attributes and not other skills.  Why should contacts be any different?

[FastJack]

Eh, people are developing the contacts over their lives just as they're developing the skills and Charisma. I don't see anything more "innate" about the attributes than skills, seeing as how you develop them the same way with BPs & karma. I tend to think of attributes more as "super skill groups" that cover an even broader range of ability.

How can you be certain that you developed that 3/3 Corporate Contact when you had a Negotiations skill of 5?  You can't.  But you can say that because of your history of being a charismatic person that an old college friend of yours eventually made his way into the corporate world becoming your 3/3 Corp contact.  Heck even knowledge skills are based off attributes and not other skills.  Why should contacts be any different?

Personally, I only see Etiquette influencing this since that's the skill most often used to put people at ease, making them like you more. The other social skills are more of a temporary change of attitude, IMO. Sure, you can Con that guy into being your best friend and let you into the building, but will he still like you after he's fired from his job for letting a Runner in to steal data?

[Faradon]

I think Con could definitely get you a reliable contact... it is what grifters do.  If a time comes where you are ready to pick that ripe peach, have them take a bullet, or throw them to the wind, you can do that too... but up until the point where they either find you out or you betray them, you can definitely build their trust up.  Think of it as the long con vs the short lie.

[Bradd]

@tbrminsanity: How can you be certain that you developed a contact when you had a Charisma of 5, and not back when you were an ugly duckling dork in high school? You can't. You just have to accept some abstraction when you're dealing with character background.

@FastJack: Funny, I was thinking just the opposite. In practice, Etiquette is mostly used for blending in and smoothing over gaffes, which are ephemeral things. I can see how it helps in making friends, but I wouldn't want to emphasize it too strongly. At the same time, I think all of the social skills have elements that are useful for building long-term relationships. (It doesn't need to be a friendly relationship either. Some people are loyal out of fear or lust.) I think some of them, like Instruction and Leadership, are even better reflective of long-term relationships than Etiquette is.

(Ninja'd! Faradon said it even better than I did. And don't forget that Con includes Seduction, which you can definitely play into a relationship.)

[FastJack]

I guess it's all a matter of taste regarding the Social skills.

[tbrminsanity]

Look I'm not saying that you can't use skills to make contact in game (because that is how it actually should be done (along with roleplaying)), I'm saying that free contact points should only be the result of attribute calculations because attributes are built slower then skills and, like with knowledge skill points, as such are more game fair (producing a more standardized amount of free points for a wider range of players).

[Bradd]

I don't agree that skills are "slower" than attributes, I don't see how that's relevant anyway. What does it matter whether you know your contact from childhood or from last week?

As for a more standardized amount: There's a much greater range in attributes than skills. The maximums are much higher (especially elf Charisma!) and augmentations are easier to find. So I don't really see how that helps your argument either.

[Critias]

As an aside, fellas, let's all just remember this whole conversation's just about a house rule, anyways.  No need for anyone to feel "right" or "wrong," it's just a matter of what they'd like to see at their game, is all.

[Bradd]

Thanks. It's been a productive conversation, too. I liked the idea of using social skills, but I also liked the idea of going by your reputation from your best skills. So I gave my players the choice of either!

[Kontact]

I really don't see shamans as being innately personable.
I see them as innately being freaky, smiling weirdos who listen to imaginary animals and drop red mesc.
Remember, just because someone is friendly, that doesn't mean that they know how to talk to people and form relationships.  It certainly helps, but it's not the end-all.

Etiquette means that a character knows how to talk with people.  It's a skill that most players will simply hand-wave away with OOC knowledge, and I've got no problem with encouraging point-hounds to buy it up large.  It's like Good Sense, the skill.  Go on, Munchy; take a little more.