[Bradd]

FastJack brought this up earlier. I'm not too fond of charging BPs for starting contacts, when you don't (and can't) spend karma for them later on. Also, I've noticed that players tend to just scrap contacts when a build gets tight, unless they're playing a face, and sometimes even then! They figure they'll just make it up in play within a few sessions, nothing lost. I'm pretty sure they'd do the same thing with Knowledge skills, and I think a similar solution is appropriate.

You get 6 × (Int + Log) BPs worth of Knowledge skills for free. That's 36 BP total with "typical" (3) ratings. I think that's a good target for contacts too: It's enough to have a couple of friends, a couple of "business" contacts, and a little extra just for flavor. I'm not too worried about game balance, since contacts come and go so easily anyway. The point here is to flesh out a PC's background, really.

There are 6 Social active skills, so if you add up all the dice pools, you get 6 × (Cha + skill). That's just about the same as the free knowledge skills, perfect! I'm not sure whether skills should default to –1 here as normal, or if it should just be +0. I'm inclined to use the defaulting penalty, to give a little incentive for buying Instruction.

Comments?

[Kontact]

I'm going to go ahead and quote a classic dumpshock post on the matter.

This one's from Ol' Scratch, a rough guy to try and argue with, but a purveyor of fine house rules.

I love seeing lots of contacts on a sheet, especially if each one has a good blurb describing not only the contact, but the player's relationship with them. I love doing the same, but the ridiculous cost of them is a burden. If I can afford two decent ones per character, I'm thrilled.

That's probably the one thing I hated most about SR4 when it was released; the absolutely crazy price contacts had on them. I mean, a single Connection 3/Loyalty 4 "buddy" costs you 7 BPs. That's the equivalence of 35,000¥, and mechanically it's 35,000¥ that you can't even use most of the time outside of the occasional bit of legwork or gear acquisition that involves them. Sure, the old "level 3" contacts -- what a Connection 6/Loyalty 6 contact currently is -- are a little cheaper that they used to be, but those are the ones that are supposed to be rare for a character, not the little contacts on the street that most professional criminals would know. Even a largely useless Con 1/Loy 1 contact costs 10,000¥ a pop. Absolutely hate it.

Anyway, the house rule I generally use is [(Charisma x 0.5) + (Etiquette x 1.5)], rounded up, in free BPs for contacts. The stipulation is that Loyalty cannot exceed your Charisma and Connection cannot exceed your Etiquette. Charisma alone isn't enough to win you associates the quality of Shadowrun contacts; you have to know how to deal with them properly professionally. But once you get your foot in the door, it's your personal charm that wins them over on a personal level.

Naturally, you can tweak the numbers to fit your preferences, but the reasoning is still sound.
Etiquette helps determine who is willing to deal with you and Charisma helps determine how much they enjoy that relationship.

[Bradd]

Yeah, my thinking was that Etiquette is not the only way you get to build relationships. For example:

Con – People you've seduced.
Etiquette – People you've charmed.
Instruction – People you've mentored.
Intimidation – People who are afraid of you.
Leadership – People who have worked for you.
Negotiation – People you do business with.

Also, the sum of the dice pools just happens to be about the value I wanted!

[anotherJack]

A GM of mines uses a houserule a little bit like this, allowing to get [etiquette]x2 free points.
Giving some free points for contacts makes totally sense to me, but I think giving too much points makes no more difference between a player who really wants to make an investment in his contacts by spending BP and a player who just doesn't care and will just use the free BP.

[Faradon]

Seeing as they come free during gameplay I see no reason there shouldn't be a mechanism to have a few free ones at character creation... but they should be of about the same calibur as ones starting characters should of been earning.  So if you are giving out free contacts I would probably limit the connection at a flat 3 or 4... for those who like using math make it 1/2 charisma for connection.

I really like some of the above ideas with the skills determining the types of free contacts based on the skills used to generate them.  Good stuff!

[FastJack]

I still like my (Charisma + Etiquette) x 4. A grumpy Sammy with a 1 Charisma and no Etiquette could still afford 2 - 1/1 contacts or one 2/2|3/1|1/3 Contact. While a Elven Face could have (theoretically) 72 BP worth of contacts.

[anotherJack]

It's not "contacts", it's an army  oO

[tbrminsanity]

I've always liked the idea of just straight Charisma based points of contacts (meaning faces will get some of their contacts subsidized).  I don't like adding in a skill as that leads to munchkinism and non-organic skill selection (like I use to see in MW:RPG 3 and the Profession skill).  What you want is the average cost for a useful contact and then that is the number you multiply by Charisma.  I'm ok with 6 (giving a face 4-6 useful contacts for free at game start, something that is essential for them).

[FastJack]

It's not "contacts", it's an army  oO

LOL... it does make getting the Group Contacts (RC, p 124) a lot easier to get, that's for sure...

[FastJack]

I've always liked the idea of just straight Charisma based points of contacts (meaning faces will get some of their contacts subsidized).  I don't like adding in a skill as that leads to munchkinism and non-organic skill selection (like I use to see in MW:RPG 3 and the Profession skill).  What you want is the average cost for a useful contact and then that is the number you multiply by Charisma.  I'm ok with 6 (giving a face 4-6 useful contacts for free at game start, something that is essential for them).

Well, the 72 BP is an extreme side for a Elven Face that's maxed out their Charisma to 12 and Etiquette to 6, so only the true munchkins would actually get that (and not much else). On average (3 Charisma/3 Etiquette), you'd get 24 BP, which could come out to 4 - 3/3 contacts, 2 6/6 contacts or, if you toss in the Group Contacts (which I'm VERY fond of), you could actually get that 3/3 Gang contact (+5 modifier; 11 BP cost) and still have points left for some other contacts...

[Faradon]

I've always liked the idea of just straight Charisma based points of contacts (meaning faces will get some of their contacts subsidized).  I don't like adding in a skill as that leads to munchkinism and non-organic skill selection (like I use to see in MW:RPG 3 and the Profession skill).  What you want is the average cost for a useful contact and then that is the number you multiply by Charisma.  I'm ok with 6 (giving a face 4-6 useful contacts for free at game start, something that is essential for them).

I dislike Charisma by itself because it is a casting stat.  Since Charisma will usually be bought high(er) for a Shaman / Technomancer, it becomes "too good." The idea of Charisma being a small part by itself (0.5x), but the social skills playing the larger role (1.5x) makes significantly more sense to me.  

[FastJack]

I've always liked the idea of just straight Charisma based points of contacts (meaning faces will get some of their contacts subsidized).  I don't like adding in a skill as that leads to munchkinism and non-organic skill selection (like I use to see in MW:RPG 3 and the Profession skill).  What you want is the average cost for a useful contact and then that is the number you multiply by Charisma.  I'm ok with 6 (giving a face 4-6 useful contacts for free at game start, something that is essential for them).

I dislike Charisma by itself because it is a casting stat.  Since Charisma will usually be bought high(er) for a Shaman / Technomancer, it becomes "too good." The idea of Charisma being a small part by itself (0.5x), but the social skills playing the larger role (1.5x) makes significantly more sense to me.  

Yes, but by being naturally charismatic, those individuals will more than likely have better contacts. A shaman is naturally personable, so he will have more contacts than the cold, calculating mage.

[Faradon]

I've always liked the idea of just straight Charisma based points of contacts (meaning faces will get some of their contacts subsidized).  I don't like adding in a skill as that leads to munchkinism and non-organic skill selection (like I use to see in MW:RPG 3 and the Profession skill).  What you want is the average cost for a useful contact and then that is the number you multiply by Charisma.  I'm ok with 6 (giving a face 4-6 useful contacts for free at game start, something that is essential for them).

I dislike Charisma by itself because it is a casting stat.  Since Charisma will usually be bought high(er) for a Shaman / Technomancer, it becomes "too good." The idea of Charisma being a small part by itself (0.5x), but the social skills playing the larger role (1.5x) makes significantly more sense to me.  

Yes, but by being naturally charismatic, those individuals will more than likely have better contacts. A shaman is naturally personable, so he will have more contacts than the cold, calculating mage.

Sure, but game balance needs to be preserved as well, which is probably why the designers forced BP spending on contacts rather than a free contact system to begin with.  Don't get me wrong, I'm all for some amount of free contacts, but spellcasters are already very good in SR4.  By giving a huge boost of contacts to shamans for something they already would have bought just feels like it cuts in to the face's role too deeply.  If the shaman wants to play a secondary role of face, take some skills and get the bulk of the free points that way. 

The more I read this though the more hesitant I become to apply house rules at all.  Some of the same arguments could be made for someone with a high electronics skill and why couldn't they upgrade their comlink to 6/6/6/6 when most of the tests only take a 1 day interval?  Some of these house rules just feel like a slippery slope, especially as I see people seeming to just want more and more.

[FastJack]

Too true... which is why it's not likely they'll become official anytime soon.

[Bradd]

@tbrminsanity: That's a smart way to figure the number of contacts/BPs awarded. I agree that a good contact costs about 6 BP. Instead of 6 × Charisma, my rule gives you 6 × (average Social skill pool). That's one less for characters who default on all of their Social skills, and 1-4 more for characters who develop them. Altogether, street sams are likely to get 1-2 free contacts, hermetic mages will get 2-4, elven shamans will get 4-8, and faces will get 10-12. That seems about right to me, and you can't really "munchkin" it, since you need to drop points on a lot of skills to get the most out of it.

@Faradon: The reason I want to give these away is because I think they're good for the game, but players simply aren't willing to pay for them. In contrast, they will happily pay for commlink upgrades, because they see a tangible, personal benefit for doing so out of the gate. If I thought that commlink upgrades were very important but undervalued by players, I would look at adjusting costs there too, but I don't see that happening.