[Marcus]

Can't tell you about 4th, but earlier editions VCRs gave meat space initiative bonuses.  And used mostly meat space stats IIRC.  It was a simpler time.  We had wires and we liked it!

^^^^^^^ This!!

Your driving the d@mn car in Seattle not in the F&*^ Matrix. I don't care how easy the matrix init thing is, meat space init is better.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Can't tell you about 4th, but earlier editions VCRs gave meat space initiative bonuses.  And used mostly meat space stats IIRC.  It was a simpler time.  We had wires and we liked it!

^^^^^^^ This!!

Your driving the d@mn car in Seattle not in the F&*^ Matrix. How don't care how easy the matrix init thing is, meat space init is better.

To be fair, if you're making use of Jumping In you're automatically in VR.  So I can see a reason why the VCR only gives bonuses in the Matrix.  I kind of prefer the lower costs (nuyen and essence) for VCRs in this edition relative to previous ones since they do nothing in meatspace... it gives more room for the Rigger to work with.

[Marcus]

To be fair, if you're making use of Jumping In you're automatically in VR.

To me this is the heart of the problem.

So I can see a reason why the VCR only gives bonuses in the Matrix.  I kind of prefer the lower costs (nuyen and essence) for VCRs in this edition relative to previous ones since they do nothing in meatspace... it gives more room for the Rigger to work with.

I think making the VCR as an add on to wired reflexes could work, but I don't like the matrix thing.
To me making the VCR insignificant has seriously hindered the development of Riggers.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

To be fair, if you're making use of Jumping In you're automatically in VR.

To me this is the heart of the problem.

It does raise all sorts of troubling questions about how exactly does one ride and rig a motorcycle at the same time.  My headcanon is you have magnets sewn into your riding leathers and helmet and you just *stick* to the bike after you go slump.

[Reaver]

To be fair, if you're making use of Jumping In you're automatically in VR.

To me this is the heart of the problem.

It does raise all sorts of troubling questions about how exactly does one ride and rig a motorcycle at the same time.  My headcanon is you have magnets sewn into your riding leathers and helmet and you just *stick* to the bike after you go slump.

The Webber field in the magnets to hold you to the bike, assuming you are of normal adult height and weight and not a Metatype, would be so strong that they could potentially mess with the electronics....


It would have to be something else...... what that is, I have no idea.

(I too have wondered how you rig a bike and stay on )

[Marcus]

To be fair, if you're making use of Jumping In you're automatically in VR.

To me this is the heart of the problem.

It does raise all sorts of troubling questions about how exactly does one ride and rig a motorcycle at the same time.  My headcanon is you have magnets sewn into your riding leathers and helmet and you just *stick* to the bike after you go slump.

Yeah the whole thing messes with my image of Riggers. I don't have anything against drone riggers, but to me Riggers are the BA Wheel-man. Able to leave knight errant in their dust, while blasting low-rider. See ever the Original gone in 60 seconds, Every episode of duke of hazard, and Transporter for more details. NPCs like Turbo Bunny etc.

[Iron Serpent Prince]

To be fair, if you're making use of Jumping In you're automatically in VR.

To me this is the heart of the problem.

It does raise all sorts of troubling questions about how exactly does one ride and rig a motorcycle at the same time.  My headcanon is you have magnets sewn into your riding leathers and helmet and you just *stick* to the bike after you go slump.

As long as you are being fair, might as well admit this was a suspension of reality problem that was often hand-waived away ever since the invention of Riggers.  Even pre-VR, rigging left the meat body practically comatose.  It was always handled similarly to diving into the Matrix, or Astrally Projecting.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

To be fair, if you're making use of Jumping In you're automatically in VR.

To me this is the heart of the problem.

It does raise all sorts of troubling questions about how exactly does one ride and rig a motorcycle at the same time.  My headcanon is you have magnets sewn into your riding leathers and helmet and you just *stick* to the bike after you go slump.

As long as you are being fair, might as well admit this was a suspension of reality problem that was often hand-waived away ever since the invention of Riggers.  Even pre-VR, rigging left the meat body practically comatose.  It was always handled similarly to diving into the Matrix, or Astrally Projecting.

Eh, back in 1st edition you could be rigging a motorcycle while still participating in the physical demands of Urban Brawl and Combat Biker

[Marcus]

As I already said I think the easy solution is to just make VCR into an add on to wire reflexes. This gives you physical intiative, and lets the rigger function in normal space.

[Iron Serpent Prince]

Eh, back in 1st edition you could be rigging a motorcycle while still participating in the physical demands of Urban Brawl and Combat Biker

You got me on an Edition I never played, so I had to dig up a copy and look for myself.
In 1st Edition the VCR was just Wired Reflexes that ONLY worked while cybernetically piloting a vehicle.  So...  A gimped Sammie.
You are right though, there was no mention that I could find of the body going limp.

[Hobbes]

It does raise all sorts of troubling questions about how exactly does one ride and rig a motorcycle at the same time.  My headcanon is you have magnets sewn into your riding leathers and helmet and you just *stick* to the bike after you go slump.

Rigger Cocoon.

[Rymdkejsaren]

Just out of curiosity: Is this kind of complete derailment of topics normal here?

[Xenon]

I think that your question was asked and answered pages ago, no...?

[Michael Chandra]

Just out of curiosity: Is this kind of complete derailment of topics normal here?

If the original subject has been answered but related subjects of debate came up, why not?

[Mirikon]

Just out of curiosity: Is this kind of complete derailment of topics normal here?

So long as the original question has been answered, and no one is getting disrespectful, then yes.