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Houserules for 6e?

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Shadow

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« on: <04-02-22/2256:11> »
I like a lot of what 6e was trying to do - reduce the insane numerous modifiers that went into everything. However, there are quite a few thing that I would like to houserule. One of them obviously is armor - I would like to see armor provide at least some damage reduction, not just a way to produce edge. Does anyone have a list of house rules. (I would especially like to see how someone would house rule armor.) Anyone want to share?

K3y

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« Reply #1 on: <04-03-22/0540:34> »
Some of the armor in Firing Squad supplement (Mil-spec armor and security armor) add DR bonus and reduces DV with some penalties (movement and/or social rolls).
I think the best way is to use armor in this way. If you want more protection there is a cost.

Xenon

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« Reply #2 on: <04-03-22/1139:38> »
Short version.

Increase all damage values against bikini trolls (and other unarmored targets) by 3.
Decrease all damage values against mil grade armor by 1 to 3 depending on how heavy the armor is.


Longer version.

A design goal for 6th edition was to make Body more important and Armor less important. Another design goal was to remove "tank" builds that rolled 30+ soak right out of chargen which pretty much made them invulnerable to most normal physical damage attacks. A third design goal was to speed up combat by getting rid of some of all them modifiers and calculations (for each attack you have recoil, recoil compensation, progressive recoil, armor, armor penetration, modified armor value, variable soak dice pools.... while not complicated to calculate they all add up and honestly in most situations doesn't even add much value anyway).


In previous edition weapons had higher base damage and soak was body of the character plus modified armor value of the character. So for each attack you used the attack's armor penetration to calculate a modified armor value which was used to reduced the damage as dice in the soak test (and you also rolled Body to reduce the damage further).

In a situation where you would typically use a Ares Light Fire Light Pistol your opponents would use lighter armor. Armor (before factoring in Body) in this situation would on average reduce the base damage value by 4 or so.

In a situation where you would typically use a Ares Predator Fire Heavy Pistol your opponents would typically use a bit more protection. Heavier armor even while including armor penetration of the heavier weapon (but before factoring in Body) in this situation would perhaps reduce the base damage value by 5 or so.

In a situation where you would typically use a Ares Alpha Automatic Rifle your opponents would typically use even heavier armor. Armor (before factoring in Body) and AP in this situation would perhaps reduce the base damage value by 7 or so.


So to not having to check armor penetration and armor to calculate modified armor value and then also not having to recalculate total soak dice pool - just to end up with similar results in most normal situations they decided to simply adjust the base damage directly and have defenders only roll Body (which is a static dice pool that you don't have to recalculate). It is not a perfect match but it speed up combat. A lot. And it actually works well. Most of the time.

So instead of an Ares Light Fire Light Pistol having a base damage of 6P (and no armor pen) before armor soak as it did in 5th edition it now have a base damage of 2P (4 less) with armor soak already factored in.

Instead of an Ares Predator having a base damage of 8P (and -1 AP) before armor soak it now have a base damage of 3P (5 less) with armor pen and armor soak already factored in.

Instead of an Ares Alpha having a base damage of 11P (and -2 AP) before armor soak factored in it now have a base damage of 4P (7 less).

This assumption / simplification actually work quite most of the time.

Where it fail are theoretical edge cases. I say theoretical because even though I can't remember how many times I've seen the idea of bikini trolls on the forums I have yet to actually experience that scenario in-game. Ever ;)

For example if attackers use assault cannons against light armored or completely unarmored opponents (in this scenario the assault cannon should probably deal a bit extra damage to make it a bit more "realistic"). A simple fix here could be to increase base damage values against targets that are unarmed (if you seriously think bikini trolls will become an issue at your table, just increase all damage values against all them by 3).

Or if defenders are for some reason wearing military grade battle armor (in this scenario weapons should probably deal slightly less damage to make it a bit more "realistic"). A simple fix here could be to reduce base damage values of all attacks against targets that are wearing mil grade battle armor by 1 to 3 points depending on how heavy the military grade armor is.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #3 on: <04-03-22/1300:33> »
Or if defenders are for some reason wearing military grade battle armor (in this scenario weapons should probably deal slightly less damage to make it a bit more "realistic"). A simple fix here could be to reduce base damage values of all attacks against targets that are wearing mil grade battle armor by 1 to 3 points depending on how heavy the military grade armor is.
Uhm, Mil-Spec already has DV reduction of 1~3?
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Xenon

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« Reply #4 on: <04-03-22/1642:34> »
If your table is using Firing Squad, Yes :)

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #5 on: <04-03-22/1744:11> »
I mean if you're using Mil-Spec armor, aren't you already using Firing Squad? It's not as if that's statted differently in a different book. 'Hey use this houserule that does exactly the same as the actual rules say' makes little sense.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

Xenon

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« Reply #6 on: <04-03-22/2245:02> »
Reading the opening post I got the impression that OP was not aware of the rules that was already presented in Firing Squad. If he is only using core rules and if he at some point want to use enemies with military grade armor then it is probably a good idea to reduce damage values a few points.

Sorry if my post was making you upset in some way. That was not my intent.

MercilessMing

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« Reply #7 on: <04-04-22/1119:47> »
There's a 6e houserule thread stickied in the Rules section, definitely some ideas in there. 
When Sixth World Companion comes out, it'll almost certainly have optional rules for armor use (that will probably become regularly used rules)

Voran

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« Reply #8 on: <04-10-22/1707:12> »
As I look into my 6e stuff, I'd probably do a house rule of making a Rigger Control Rig about half the essence cost it currently is, so .5, 1, 1.5.  before quality considerations.  Alternately reduce the current Cyberjack essence cost half of what it is.  It just seems off that in order to be a Decker you now have to invest Wired Reflexes level essence into it.

Unless they allow for non-implant cyberjack.

Xenon

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« Reply #9 on: <04-10-22/1737:57> »
Riggers typically get a RCC + an implanted Control Rig.

Deckers typically don't get a Control Rig, unless perhaps they plan to also take Engineering and Piloting skills and directly jump into drones (their own or enemy drones that belong to a network they hacked admin access on).

Most deckers probably get a Cyberdeck + an implanted Cyberjack. But if they are seriously concerned about essence (perhaps in the case of an awakened hacker) they can instead use a weaker firewall and data processing from a simple commlink and gain access to DNI by implanting a less invasive datajack or simply by wearing trodes (= cyberjack is not mandatory).

MercilessMing

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« Reply #10 on: <04-11-22/1622:16> »
As I look into my 6e stuff, I'd probably do a house rule of making a Rigger Control Rig about half the essence cost it currently is, so .5, 1, 1.5.  before quality considerations.  Alternately reduce the current Cyberjack essence cost half of what it is.  It just seems off that in order to be a Decker you now have to invest Wired Reflexes level essence into it.

Unless they allow for non-implant cyberjack.
They do it on purpose to limit your ability to "multi-class".  Cyberjacks are an archetype-defining piece of ware, as are control rigs, and wired reflexes. 

Anything's possible, but I can't see them making a non-implant version of the cyberjack since it's the cutting edge of man-machine interface tech in the current time. 

Voran

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« Reply #11 on: <04-20-22/2122:10> »
After going through more of my 6e library....

And looking back on my old stuff, I realized, "huh, some of the 'legendaries' probably don't have the same build possibilities anymore'.  Ala Clockwork and his decker/drone rigger stuff.  Even Slammo if he has to now have a decent cyberjack is potentially pushing sub-1 rating essence.  Etc etc.

On that note, I'd probably actually bring back full stats as listed for cyberdecks, make the cyberjack a cheaper essence buy but having the benefit of boosting D/F ratings (still haven't figured out what stats to make it.

I liked the alternate approach to commlinks, but might toy with that too, maybe a "Sum to Device Rating+2" setup, but flexible, so your rating 6 commlink might be able to pull off a D/F 1/7 or 3/5 or whatever combo to 6 but no quality to zero.  And your rating 1 metalink would be something like 1/2.

If true flexible is too much, maybe something like that rating 6 having a 3/5.  In general I didn't like how commlinks were so basically zero-defense even if you bought a high end commlink.  It felt like the way it was setup even a fresh newbie decker could do horrible things to any npc even with a rating 6 commlink, which seems like the last thing that would considered consumer-reliable. 

edit: addn

I'd also keep the 6e cyberdeck costs as listed, even if I'm reverting them to 5e full stats.  Mostly because I've seen before in the sourcebooks they'll do things like say (well, its more jackpoint contributor saying, but everyone agreeing) that "you shouldn't get attached to your gear!" which gets silly when it was such a huge credit investment for a decker to get a solid board.  "Don't get attached to that 1 million nuyen (old school) cyberdeck!" and then adding rules that allow targeting of objects like cybderdecks :P

I'd actually also keep the nuyen cost of the cyberjack as listed.
« Last Edit: <04-21-22/0202:04> by Voran »

Xenon

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« Reply #12 on: <04-21-22/0216:48> »
Just realized that nobody really answered the question that was in the opening post

Does anyone have a list of house rules. (I would especially like to see how someone would house rule armor.) Anyone want to share?
There is a sticky thread for SR6 house rules that can be found over here:
https://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=29993.0