[spp]

I know programs are limited by System and System is limited by Response.  What is Firewall limited by? 

Thanx.  And where can i find it?

Sincerely from spp.

[FastJack]

Since Firewall is software on the Commlink, I'd rule that it was limited by the System rating, same as other programs.

[joe15552]

It can also be interpreted that Firewall software is not a program, as per the rules for "system" on pg 222 in SR420. The reason why some GM's choose to rule that way is because a crazy technomancer will say, "Oh, firewall is a program, eh? Well take this! I thread my firewall to INFINITY! MWAHAHahaha..."

If the GM rules that Firewall is not a program to keep technomancers from doing that, then when the player re-rolls to a mundane hacker and says, "Okay now I have a firewall of 6 on my disposable comlink, since system only restricts the rating of programs, and firewall is not a program!"

The GM then either goes and cries in a corner because that player is so mean, or he says, "Fine, take your crappy comlink with a high firewall. Enjoy."

The moral to that story is, be nice to your GM, and the rules. Fastjack's way is the most balanced way, as long as a technomancer player doesn't try to use that ruling as a way to thread a firewall program.

[FastJack]

Maybe we should distinguish that software and programs are related like squares and rectangles? In other words, all programs are software, but not all software are programs. System is software that runs other software and programs, limiting how well they perform.

[Maelstrom]

My long two cents:

Firewall is included in SR4 page 330 Matrix Programs table separately from Common, Hacking, and Agent/IC/Pilot.

It's a program, but one not limited by the System and not one Technomancers can thread.  It doesn't count against the Processor Limit.  It can't accept options except the Copy Protection that is written into all legal software.


If someone wants to install Rating 6 Firewall on a device (commlink, smartgun, drone, vehicle, refrigerator, toaster), go for it and annotate the device stats accordingly as per Arsenal.

However, legal software can't be installed repeatedly.  You (or someone else) either have to crack the copy protection and patch upgrade/reinstall it monthly to avoid degredation or buy a new Firewall for each application.

[FastJack]

Looking at real-world examples, I'd have to disagree, Maelstrom. If you have a firewall running, it can (and often will) degrade the performance of your OS. It uses the same resources as other programs, and needs to be tailored to your OS (can't run a firewall written for a Mac OS on a Windows platform).

[spp]

My character is currently in the middle of her first mission.  When she gets done she may want to upgrade her firewall.  Can she buy her upgrade, or does someone have to code it.  What does it cost and how long does it take.  If I remember right increases above 3 cost 500 nuyen each rating up to 6, but I assume that is when you buy the initial package.  I haven't gotten into unwired yet, we are just starting and want to get the core rules down first, but if the rules for this are there, I assume our GM will allow it.

Thanx, sincerely from spp.

[Ultra Violet]

And every time again...

Does the maximum program rating limited by the System rating apply to Firewall?

No; System does not limit the ratings of Firewall since it is a Matrix Attribute. Agents, Common Use, Hacking, and all other types of programs running on the device are limited by the System rating.

Firewall is per definition a Matrix Attribute and so it is something different than a pure program.

[Maelstrom]

Looking at real-world examples, I'd have to disagree, Maelstrom. If you have a firewall running, it can (and often will) degrade the performance of your OS. It uses the same resources as other programs, and needs to be tailored to your OS (can't run a firewall written for a Mac OS on a Windows platform).

I agree completely with the real-world example.

However, device matrix attributes include Firewall.  The processor limit applies to programs outside the scope of the device's matrix attributes.


Firewall is a technomancer's living persona attribute, not a complex form.


Edit: Ultra Violet, thanks for the reference

[FastJack]

Thanks UV! That's two things I got caught up on today.

(must be the age, damn kids are getting the better of me...)

[Kontact]

Here comes a question.

First the relevant passage w/ emph.

Upgrading devices
If you are looking for more power in your device, you can upgrade its
Matrix attributes. Upgrading a device is simply a matter of having the proper hardware module (for Response and Signal) or software package (for Firewall and System). Once you have the module or package, simply
install it into the device, a matter of a few minutes’ work. A device’s rat-ings may only be upgraded by +2 with regards to their original ratings.
Further improvements have no additional effect on performance.
You do not have to upgrade all of a device’s attributes at once, even
if the device has a Device Rating. In this case, the device can no longer
be considered a “common” device, and should have its attributes re-
corded separately.
A device may have only one hardware module or software package
for each attribute.
Rules for building your own modules or coding your own pack-
ages can be found on p. 228

So, does this limit firewall upgrades?  For instance, is the max firewall for a civilian transport (like a sedan) 3+2= 5?
Can military vehicles only (lol) have a Firewall of 7?

Commlinks generally avoid device ratings, so does that mean that you can get a custom OS with a Firewall of up to 6, or would you need to purchase the Iris Orb or Novatech Navi OS and then only be able to buy and upgrade to a Firewall of 5?

Additional craziness.  If it is unlimited, due to ruling or the Modular Electronics mod, since Firewall is independent of Response, there is no upper limit to what level a node can run, therefore there is no upper limit to what a programmer can code.  Ususally programming software is limited by what can potentially run on a system.  So, you could code a R100 firewall with a Threshold 200 programming test (still not as bad as trying to forge a R6 SIN...) on your Metalink.  You could be unvincible!

Edit:  WTF happened with that underline?  that was gobbles.

[Bradd]

Are you working from the original PDF? The current version reads: "A device's hardware ratings may only be upgraded by +2 ...."

[Kontact]

Heh, yeah... I need to go ahead and get that sorted.

Still doesn't address the issue of an unlimited Firewall..