[sylanna]

You can trigger multiple grenades with only one action?

[markelphoenix]

Actually, that would work pretty well. Multiple suppressive fires at the start, forcing them to go prone or take full cover. If they risk popping up, pretty darn good chance of taking some led. While doing that, you're grenade lobbing, putting them into a no win scenario. 2-3x Suppressive for in the opening IP followed by a grenade = bad day

[SoulGambit]

Actually, I would say the simultanious explosions rules are for setting explosives and having them all detonate simultaneously.

Is there an argument for Grenades adding damage that can not also be applied to being hit by three bullets?

[sylanna]

The rules for simultaneous blasts are in the "grenade launches, rockets, missiles" section...
Explosives have a different ruleset...circular explosions etc.

[SoulGambit]

The rules for being hit by a bullet state that it deals the weapon's DV. Why does one apply and the other does not?

[sylanna]

Grenade launchers technically don't have a DV. They aren't like other weapons...that's why they got an own section in the first place.

[SoulGambit]

And?

[sylanna]

There is just no rule for an increased DV when you  hit with multiple bullets. The firing mode has nothing to do with the DV...it only influences use of ammunition and defensive rolls.
Firing three bullets at the target doesn't trigger any special rule (because there is none). You just apply the weapons DV (maybe modified by ammunition).
Firing three grenades triggers a special case rule for grenades - the multiple simultaneous blasts.

[SoulGambit]

You're right, firing mode has nothing to do with the DV. It only influences the use of ammunition and defensive rolls. The ammunition being Grenades has no bearing on this. To reverse your logic again, since there are no special rules for 3 bullets hitting someone you'd default to the normal rules, which are three different DVs. This is what you do when three different people shoot three bullets at someone, after all. Now, even with this rather... literal interpretation of the rules, Multiple Attacks would let you catch multiple people in simultaneous explosions as long as they are near each other. But then you are splitting your dicepool, have a lot of scatter, etc. At least hypothetically. -shrugs-

[ZeConster]

To reverse your logic again, since there are no special rules for 3 bullets hitting someone you'd default to the normal rules, which are three different DVs. This is what you do when three different people shoot three bullets at someone, after all.

There are no special rules in 5e for hitting someone with 3 bullets because that's not what happens - you fire the bullets in such a way that your target is more likely to get hit by 1 of them. 4e had the narrow burst, which caused the extra bullets to also sort-of hit the target, giving +1 to DV per extra bullet, but 5e doesn't anymore. And given that grenades have a blast radius of 8 or 18 meters, applying the bullet burst rules to grenades is pretty weird.

[SoulGambit]

Pretty weird, but more balanced. I'm okay with that, weird stuff happens all the time in the rules. They are an approximation, not reality. Hell, there's nothing to imply that the extra grenades even blow up. Its entirely possible that they're consumed after the first one explodes without themselves exploding.

[Vass654]

Depends on the grenade... Mostly unlikely as hell, but possible, in a critical glitch kind of way. I know this got solved in 4e by War!, so while I don't know the wording in 5e book, here's the bit from 4e...

Occasionally, a gamemaster will have more than one grenade or other explosive simultaneously affecting a single target. In these cases, treat the damage as a single blast with a Damage Values equal to the sum of the highest Damage Value of one explosion plus half the DV of the other explosions. Each explosion’s DV should be modified for the distance of each explosion, as if the target was affected by the Blast in a Confined Space  rules (p. 156, SR4A). The combination of overlapping blasts and confined quarters is known as the “puréed salsa effect.”

Dunno. Even the bits I've seen here, it seems pretty cut and dry to me. Multiple grenades work as multiple explosions, unless you're just scattering them all over the place, but at a single target or a group, it's going to be very very painful for them.

[SoulGambit]

I'm not saying anyone on the other side is being at all unreasonable. I'm saying there are two interpretations of the rules. One of them is more balanced, if pedantic. One of them is more intuitive, but unbalanced. Give those two choices, we should choose the former.

[KarmaInferno]

As I said, there's enough ambiguity that a FAQ entry probably needs doing. So I did.


-k

[Michael Chandra]

RAW seems to be for the unbalanced one. After all, that -2 from the burst merely would determine whether or not a grenade hits you on the chest or a scatter roll is needed. But Wireless Grenades are aimed at the ground, no defense applies. And they do not explode in the same Action as they are fired. They explode when commanded to. At which point you clearly have 3 simultaneous explosions that hurt like hell, not 3 projectiles fired at you.

However, I consider Wireless Grenades as they are now potentially abusable, and we need clarification on whether you can trigger multiple Grenades in 1 go. By the way, if you can't, what stops you from letting your teammates command the grenades with their Free Actions and let them explode all at once?
Also, if they are in fact this overpowered when it comes to bursts, they clearly need a bit of changing up. It's easy to houserule they got a 1-Action-Phase minimum delay due to the charging taking time.

By the way, if someone put spells on the grenades and fired them at me, clearly the -2 applies.