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[SR4a] Archetypes: replacements for the Sample Characters

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UmaroVI

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« Reply #165 on: <02-15-12/1111:02> »
Thought about it a bit more; two variants you might consider as well:

1) Don't buy any initiative enhancer at all. Just use drugs, and live with 1 IP when you can't.

2) Don't buy Improved Reflexes, and instead buy Synaptic Boosters. SB 1 saves you 1 "essence" of space vs. IR, but you then have to throw it out when you want to upgrade. SB 2 means that you have to fit everything but ware into 25000Y which is tight but doable, and is very expensive, but is better than IR1 for .5 less soul. You could also plan on saving up 240000Y in game and then installing SB 3, losing IR from the lost magic, and then buying magic back up and buying a different power.

I would go with Option 1 if you really don't care much about being good at fighting, and spend the saved 1.5 PP on getting Kinesics to 3, and then do whatever with the last .5; probably more Improved Ability. Otherwise, it depends largely on how much you care about power now vs. power later and whether you would ever want to pay for a third/fourth IP.

Orvich

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« Reply #166 on: <02-15-12/1246:18> »
Thanks for the tips! A bunch of them probably won't end up applying to the character, because we aren't using some things like Mind Over Matter, or Nanohives...

Which brings me to a few questions.

Is Mind Over Matter particularly necessary to building a good adept? I kinda doubt it, but it makes buying stats much easier (duh).

Why the cyber leg? Just for the nanohive?

Assuming 250bp for stats, and no Mind Over Matter, what sort of stat pools (final) should a semi-optimized/competent character be looking at? I'm still a bit shakey on how large of pools are needed for different types of things. Some actions seem to require very small innate pools, due to gear, while others require large innate pools.

UmaroVI

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« Reply #167 on: <02-15-12/1307:35> »
Mind over Matter isn't the only way to build a good adept. It does make some types of hybrid adepts easier.

The main reason for a cyberlimb on this type of character is the nahohive, yeah. I would probably not bother otherwise.

There really just aren't guidelines for dice pools. At all. It's completely relative to your group and it may vary widely from skill to skill.

250bp for stats is not super helpful to you. You need to also buy Magic. And edge. And Adept. And Skills. If you actually spend 250bp on stats, you won't have enough left. It's more helpful to mundanes.

Orvich

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« Reply #168 on: <02-15-12/1503:46> »
Really? With a 500bp adept character, spending 250 bp on stats will leave you behind? I was including magic in the 250 bp I'm likely to spend on stats also though it's not actually capped by the stat limit. I was under the impression that you pretty much always wanted to hit your cap spending on stats, or around there.

UmaroVI

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« Reply #169 on: <02-15-12/1519:21> »
Oh, the 500 bp is an important part of that question :P I meant that 250 bp on stats on a 400bp character would leave you behind. With 500 bp it should be no problem to make an adept who can face, B&E, and be acceptably OK at fighting, even without Mind over Matter.

Tsuzua

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« Reply #170 on: <02-15-12/1532:00> »
Assuming 250bp for stats, and no Mind Over Matter, what sort of stat pools (final) should a semi-optimized/competent character be looking at? I'm still a bit shakey on how large of pools are needed for different types of things. Some actions seem to require very small innate pools, due to gear, while others require large innate pools.
I'm assuming this is for the face/sneak adept that doesn't completely suck at combat.  How much do care about being a "pure" i.e. non-augmented adept? 

Dice pools vary wildly from group to group.  The archetypes on the higher end of the dice pool spectrum, but I will use them as a reference. 

To face, you want your Con and Negotiation to be at least in the 12 range.  That'll allow to you beat the Mr. Johnson in the book in an opposed Con check more often than not.  Obviously more dice is better, but that's the lowest check I would call a face.  Charisma 5, Influence 4, and some combination of Kinesics and Tailored Pheromones should do it.  If you use emotoys, I wouldn't count them towards this because your opposition will be using it as well.  If you can SURGE and live with distinctive features, glamour is amazingly good deal.

To sneak, you want a good infiltration check.  Here more dice is always better.  You'll also want to make it harder for others to see you.  Ruthenium coatings give a -4 to spot you.  Spirits with concealment can give out -4 to -10 penalties.  Therefore I can't really give you a good value for how good your roll should be. 

If you're going to sneak around, you have to deal with security measures.  Some such as cameras or drones might be defeated by good infiltration checks (depending on the GM).  To defeat others like cyberware scanners, you need hacker support.  However, one you'll likely always encounter is the maglock, be it passkey, bioinformatic, or other.

There's two ways to quietly deal with a maglock.  The first is to use a widget like a maglock passkey or cellular glove maker.  Widgets are pricey, unreliable (typically they can roll at most 6 dice against rating), and often require materials (you need a fingerprint to make a fake fingerprint glove).  For this reason, I generally recommend against relying on them.

The other way is to directly manipulate the maglock via hardware.  You'll likely need a hardware kit but that's cheap and easy to carry.  To bypass a maglock, you'll need to make at least 2 hardware + logic (Maglock Rating x 2, 1 Combat Turn) tests, one to open the case and the other to mess around with the insides.  You may want to do a third test to put the case back on. 

Since the most badass maglock you'll normally see is a rating 6 maglock, you'll need to make 12 hits on an extended test.  If you roll 12 dice, you'll get 4 hits on average and thus take you 6 combat turns (18 seconds) to bypass such a maglock (3 turns to remove the case and 3 turns to mess around with the wires) .  If you want to leave no signs, you'll need another 3 turns (9 seconds) to put the case back on.  Overall, that means it'll take you 27 seconds to get though a door.  That's either forever or no time at all.  If you only have 9 dice, it'll take you slightly longer, 12 turns or 36 seconds which isn't that much worse.

Do keep in mind whatever rules your GM uses on extended tests.  If he caps your attempts by your skill, you'll likely have only 4 or so attempts to successfully pass each test.  If you have -1 after every roll instead, you might take longer as your dice pool shrinks (typically I would suggest stopping at 3-5 or so dice for fear of glitching).

The biggest issue is the anti-tamper system.  A rating 4 anti-tamper system, the toughest you'll normally encounter, requires a special hardware roll with a threshold of 4 to bypass. To hit that on average, you'll need 12 dice.  However in my experience most GMs don't use them.  I'll say 10 hardware dice pool and a good edge score can handle the worst maglocks can throw at you.

Now as for combat, you want to be able to hurt people and survive.  Since you're more of a lover than a fighter, you don't need great rolls to attack, but defense is always good.  I would see about getting a 5 body.  That'll give you 5 body and 12/11 armor.  That should see you though defense wise.  As for attacking, I'll be good with a pistol.  Since the highest defense check you'll normally see is 9, you'll want a 12 or so.  If you can assume tacnet, that makes things easy.  Otherwise, pistols 4 (specialization +2) + agility 4 + smartlink 2 will see you though.  This is one of the reasons why cyberlimbs of aweosme are so good is that you can get a decent attack roll easy.

Getting an extra IP is a really good idea.  Most fights typically last 2-3 passes so you'll want to help in that second pass.  You can live with not going in the third pass especially if you know you'll often have more combatable backup.  For an adept, the two core ways for IP is the Adept power Improved Reflexes or Synaptic Boosters.  You can also take Cram for +1 reaction and +1 IP instead.  A lot of people don't like drugs so I can understand passing on that.

UmaroVI

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« Reply #171 on: <02-15-12/1542:24> »
As a social adept who wants to dial it in on combat, I would actually suggest just leaning on Commanding Voice and have something like Heavy Weapons (Assault Cannons) 1 (3) for dealing with things that can't be commanding voiced via gauss rifle. If you jack your Leadership high enough, you can spend actions to make the entire opposition sit there for a pass, which is huge and is even more huge if you aren't very good at fighting otherwise. Enough things are immune that you don't want to totally rely on this, but it can easily be the mainstay of your combat strategy and that plus 2 IPs is enough to make sure you can beat up go-gangers and whatnot.

Orvich

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« Reply #172 on: <02-15-12/1627:01> »
I actually have a question about some of the equips you've got, and have suggested.

Quote
Arsenal, pg. 50:
Ruthenium Polymer Coating: Th is modification can only be added to armor or clothing that covers the wearer’s whole body, like full body armors or suits.

You've got it added to overcoats and stuff! Is the idea there that you've got enough parts coated with it to overall count as covering your entire body?

UmaroVI

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« Reply #173 on: <02-15-12/1655:18> »
You can also call it a poncho if you prefer :P 0/0 "clothing" can definitely include things that cover your whole body.

Orvich

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« Reply #174 on: <02-15-12/1700:31> »
Oh god. The poncho of invisibility. And the coating would probably make it the "Somewhat Rigid Poncho of Invisibility".

Makki

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« Reply #175 on: <02-21-12/0230:14> »
the Gunslinger uses Tracer rounds in the Fubuki. But by my text, they only work with full-auto weapons.

redwolf

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« Reply #176 on: <02-21-12/0509:29> »
the Gunslinger uses Tracer rounds in the Fubuki. But by my text, they only work with full-auto weapons.
and the fubuki is? if a weapon fire all is rounds in one go then imo it is full auto + iirc tracer work in bf mod and not only full auto
yes i'm red and it's not blood, and no i'm no comy i'm just red, so are you going for that pis' or going away!!!

Crash_00

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« Reply #177 on: <02-21-12/0555:24> »
The fubuki is a BF weapon, not FA. It doesn't say that the weapon has to fire in FA to gain benefits from the tracers (the rules support burst, long burst and full burst), it does stat that "This type of ammunition can only be used in full-auto weapons and is loaded as every third round in a clip."

That makes it pretty clear that it can't be used in anything without FA listed in its modes. I don't look at it as a logical they can't do it, so much as more of a no companies make that kind of ammunition. Thinking about it logically, with smartlink being so cheap and easy to get (external versions and the vision enh. are both lower avail. than tracer rounds), who would their market be? A set of Smartlink goggles cost roughly a grand, work for every kind of shot, and are better for everything but full bursts. The only primary market for tracer rounds are actual FA users (meaning primarily MGs) and extremely poor individuals (most of which can't afford the licensing for their guns or the ammo anyway). The latter case tends to get used in crimes and is not something most companies want attributed to them. There isn't a single FA pistol other than Machine Pistols.

Now in RL, all these classes (including SMGs) would often share ammo types, opening up many more doors, but SR has ammo split by weapon type rather than caliber. The weapon classes don't share ammo with each other at all, so there is no crossover. With no FA light pistols on the market, their is no reason for Light Pistol tracers to exist.

Lethe

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« Reply #178 on: <02-21-12/0629:18> »
the Gunslinger uses Tracer rounds in the Fubuki. But by my text, they only work with full-auto weapons.
and the fubuki is? if a weapon fire all is rounds in one go then imo it is full auto + iirc tracer work in bf mod and not only full auto
But: There is only one explanation a fubuki has SA recoil instead of BF recoil, when shooting the 4 rounds. Those 4 rounds are all shot at once. So, why its reasonable to use BF rules for the damage calculation, there will be no tracing effect to adjust for. Those 4 shots are used like a single bullet and a single bullet doesn't have a tracing bonus!

UmaroVI

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« Reply #179 on: <02-21-12/0643:37> »
Yup, that's correct. I overlooked the restriction to full-auto weapons only and was thinking it would work with bursts on a BF weapon. I'll fix that.

Someone also pointed out that the people with plastic guns should probably also own a few plastic bullets, so that's getting fixed too.