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Double Clutch Discussion

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Banshee

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« Reply #15 on: <10-06-21/1540:53> »
Drones are vehicles that don't carry passengers... so they all use the same rules. It's not that the rules don't cover it, because they do. It's that when you slow it down to the character level it just isn't worth doing the math 98% percent of the time.

For example a Steel Lynx at its lowest Speed Interval has a movement rate of 15 meters per turn putting at 50% faster than the metatypes. So why worry about doing any math beyond that unless it needs to engage something faster?
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Typhus

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« Reply #16 on: <10-06-21/1624:16> »
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Drones are vehicles that don't carry passengers... so they all use the same rules.

Their use cases are completely different for travel vs tactical.  It would make more sense to treat them differently mechanically. 

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It's not that the rules don't cover it, because they do. It's that when you slow it down to the character level it just isn't worth doing the math 98% percent of the time.

So put that statement in the book.  Any book.  Instruct people.  In a rulebook.

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For example a Steel Lynx at its lowest Speed Interval has a movement rate of 15 meters per turn putting at 50% faster than the metatypes. So why worry about doing any math beyond that unless it needs to engage something faster?

Because the rule book doesn't say that's how Accel or Speed Intervals work.  It only provides one use case and no exceptions.  I'm not sure how else I can say that what's in your head is not in the rulebook and makes people have to stop and scratch their heads and fake it instead of following what could be a two sentence rule.
That's a pretty unfortunate state of affairs for what (in my experience) is a pretty quintessential function of being a rigger.

Sorry, I don't think we agree that there's a problem here, and I'm not sure what we're going to accomplish carrying on further.  Happy to talk more, but I can't think of how else to state it, not any benefit to continuing to try.  Your solution is fine "Use Accel as the walk rate".  Simple, easy.  Not disputing that.  Just asking for it to be published somewhere so people can use it.

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #17 on: <10-06-21/1848:19> »
Your solution is fine "Use Accel as the walk rate".  Simple, easy.  Not disputing that.  Just asking for it to be published somewhere so people can use it.

I'm in the works on making that wish come true.

And in the meantime, you *know* via your participation in this discussion that's the intent of how to use drones and pedestrians on the same battle map.
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Typhus

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« Reply #18 on: <10-06-21/1940:56> »
I do now, yes.  I appreciate the pending publication for clarification and making it official.

Banshee

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« Reply #19 on: <10-06-21/1949:42> »
Well just to be clear for your interpretation... acceleration is not walking speed. Vehicles do not have walk/sprint values.
A Vehicle's movement (using a Move Action) is equal to its current Speed per the calculation on page 199 CRB.

My only suggested "alteration" to RAW is that most of the time you do not need to do that calculation because even at the slowest rate most combat drones are capable of moving fast enough to outpace any character on the "map"
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Xenon

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« Reply #20 on: <10-08-21/0250:03> »
Some drones have higher Accel ... than their top speeds. 
Its only odd if Accel have a value that is more than twice as high as top speed.

An Accel that is twice as high as top speed just mean that the drone can have a travel distance of 0 in one combat turn and then travel its top seed distance in the next combat turn. Not sure why this is odd.

Although the rules are different it is still similar to how characters move. Characters in this edition have a top speed of 10 meters per combat turn and for argument sake you could say that they have an accel of 20. This mean that they can move 0 meters in one combat turn and 10 meters (up to half of their acceleration) in the very next combat turn. Since they are at their top speed they will still not move more than 10 meters the combat turn after that.

Nissan Jackrabbit also have an accel of 20. Which mean it can stand still (move 0 meters) in one combat turn. And then move 10 meters (half its accel) in the next combat turn (perfectly keep up with a character that is not sprinting). Combat turn after that the car can leave the character in the dust. Or keep same speed or reduce speed to perfectly match the distance that the character will move.

The math is a bit over complicated perhaps (everything else in this edition got simplified but this got super complex in comparison for some reason) but at the same time its also not really rocket science...

KarmaInferno

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« Reply #21 on: <10-08-21/1333:01> »
Under Build Your Dream p 151, for "Improved Size", does the Size Class increase also increase the Length, Weight, and Cargo Capacity as per the Size Class table? If so, why would you ever spend Build Points on this when you could just start with the larger size?

Banshee

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« Reply #22 on: <10-08-21/1944:53> »
Under Build Your Dream p 151, for "Improved Size", does the Size Class increase also increase the Length, Weight, and Cargo Capacity as per the Size Class table? If so, why would you ever spend Build Points on this when you could just start with the larger size?

Because the chassis determines the initial size class and you don't just pick a size class. So 1st you pick the chassis then cam choose to make it bigger if you need it.
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KarmaInferno

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« Reply #23 on: <10-09-21/0521:45> »
So you'd likely never use Improved Size for drones unless it's already Large.

Because just picking the next drone chassis size up is 2 BP more, whereas Improved Size is 4 BP.

Wait, did Huge size drones go away as a category?
« Last Edit: <10-09-21/0526:40> by KarmaInferno »

Banshee

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« Reply #24 on: <10-09-21/0808:41> »
So you'd likely never use Improved Size for drones unless it's already Large.

Because just picking the next drone chassis size up is 2 BP more, whereas Improved Size is 4 BP.

Wait, did Huge size drones go away as a category?

Correct.
yes "huge" drones would just be large with Improved Size
Mechanically I stuck with the sizes that were provided in the CRB and built from there, also there not much difference in functionality other than size at that point. Stuff like that and cargo ships is what drove me to create the size class rules.. well that and j always hated using Body to determine size.
« Last Edit: <10-09-21/0811:27> by Banshee »
Robert "Banshee" Volbrecht
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KarmaInferno

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« Reply #25 on: <10-13-21/0829:06> »
Hmm... Is there a reason Gun Ports consume valuble Mod Slots? (Actually, do they? They have a "rating" of 0.5 where other mods have the mod slot cost.)

A CF cost would have seemed more appropriate given that mechanically they are just holes, maybe with a hatch cover. They would have more impact on passenger space than structural.

Banshee

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« Reply #26 on: <10-13-21/0843:07> »
Hmm... Is there a reason Gun Ports consume valuble Mod Slots? (Actually, do they? They have a "rating" of 0.5 where other mods have the mod slot cost.)

A CF cost would have seemed more appropriate given that mechanically they are just holes, maybe with a hatch cover. They would have more impact on passenger space than structural.

Good catch... need to review for errata. There is definitely information missing.
Robert "Banshee" Volbrecht
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KarmaInferno

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« Reply #27 on: <10-14-21/1852:18> »
I have discovered a grievous oversight!

Actually it's one that has been an issue with all previous Rigger books that I can recall.

There's no option to make a car a convertible.

Fail.

 ;D

(There's Open Construction, but that's permanent, not something that can be closed with a button press.)


-k

cantrip

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« Reply #28 on: <10-14-21/2349:41> »
My players tend to use rocket launchers to make convertibles  ;D

FastJack

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« Reply #29 on: <10-15-21/0640:47> »
From inside the car? Must be distracting to the other passengers...