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Double Clutch Previews!

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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #1 on: <10-04-21/0348:06> »
I am going to have so much fun with custom vehicle creation. Did a quick version for a really-fast-high-body SUV, and one modified to also have massive armour which is still driveable.
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Aria

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« Reply #2 on: <10-04-21/0747:23> »
Whilst I'm looking forward to building more anthro drones... and just because, hover boards :D

There was a joke version in SR4...now we'll have the rules to make them ourselves (I hope!)

And jet packs...

And...

:D
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FastJack

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« Reply #3 on: <10-04-21/0845:55> »
Whilst I'm looking forward to building more anthro drones... and just because, hover boards :D

There was a joke version in SR4...now we'll have the rules to make them ourselves (I hope!)

And jet packs...

And...

:D
There is the Spinrad Jet Skateboard. Still translating, so I haven't seen hoverboards (yet).

Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #4 on: <10-04-21/0850:17> »
and there is a jetpack :)
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Greysword

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« Reply #5 on: <10-05-21/0017:37> »
Why didn't they release the write-up for the scorpion thing? It's the stat block for the scorpion drone and the write-up for a motorcycle drone.

...and it's a fuzzy scan of the page. Was this done on a home scanner?

Finstersang

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« Reply #6 on: <10-05-21/0730:49> »
Thatīs just the page layout. Judging from the german version, can confirm that both have correct stats listed.

And TBH, most of the stuff looks quite fun and reasonably balanced as well. Besides an actually usable jetpack (that isnīt fiercely gated behind the ol' "super experimental stuff with Availability over 9000" wall), there are other really fun new toys. I especially liked the flying Monowhip decapitator drone and the design and "lore" for the weaponized vending machine is silly in just the right way. The new Modification rules are going in the right direction as well: No artificial seperation between drone and vehicle modification, usable armor mods, ample room for modification (in 5th Edition, you couldnīt do shit to most smaller drones) and thereīs an actuall cost benefit when you install things yourself.

No, canīt complain much at all, if it werenīt for the fact that the book also adds a new 3 Karma quality that absolutely fraggs up everything. And not just for Riggers, but for everyone. But hell, at least now we all get to know why SSDR wasnīt able to get a sane version of Analytical Mind through errata  ::)
"Firing Line adds a ton of Perks that modify Attack and Defense ratings"

"Cool, does this mean that the whole AR/DR comparison has a bigger impact now?"

"Haha No :D"

Aria

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« Reply #7 on: <10-05-21/0742:21> »
Just downloading my copy of Double Clutch (English version) from DriveThru now :D
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Banshee

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« Reply #8 on: <10-05-21/0823:21> »
No, canīt complain much at all, if it werenīt for the fact that the book also adds a new 3 Karma quality that absolutely fraggs up everything. And not just for Riggers, but for everyone. But hell, at least now we all get to know why SSDR wasnīt able to get a sane version of Analytical Mind through errata  ::)

Yeeaaahhhhh ... there are several of us unhappy about that particular quality, but we got overruled.
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Aria

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« Reply #9 on: <10-05-21/0915:46> »
Looks like a house rule to change the cost to 12 would put them back in line with the other edge providing qualities… or is that too simplistic?! Or we just accept everyone getting min 1 edge a round :P
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Finstersang

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« Reply #10 on: <10-05-21/1026:00> »
Iīd argue that Analytical Mind is broken threefold: The Karma cost is obviously too cheap compared to qualities like Catlike or Double Jointed, but itīs also way too broad: It triggers for most hacking and electronics test, engineering tests including remote gunnery and Hermetic Drain (although this and only this is explicitly not the case in the german version. Hurra, I guess? :P).

Depending on the reading, it may even trigger on Memory tests (for which there is a second, normally balanced 12-Karma Quality!!!) and Knowledge tests. And unlike all the other, normally balanced Edge-granting qualities, the Edge granted from AM is not exclusive to the test in question. You can literally just think free Edge into existence if you are cheesy enough and not afraid of getting phonebooked by the GM.

You have to be out of your mind to think that Analytical Mind is an even remotely balanced quality. Itīs a testament to lunacy. If you want a reasonable balance compared to other Edge-granting qualities, it needs at least a higher price tag, a much more narrows scope and the Edge has to be exclusive. In previous Editions, AM was a relatively harmless, but flavourfull "Sherlock Holmes"-type quality that granted a Bonus on Puzzle-Solving and Combining Clues. Given how often Legwork presents you with such situation, 8-12 Karma doesnīt seem too bad, even with a scope as narrow as that.

*engage rant mode*
Ok, time to roll  8)


So, what do we get in Double Clutch?
Analytical mind, but for every other Attribute. No, Really.

I donīt know how much the german translation differs from the original, but thereīs a Positive Quality for just 3 Karma that allows you to choose any Attribute besides Logic (because, you know: Thereīs already Analytical Mind. And itīs explicitly mentioned in the description  ::)), and you will get 1 guaranteed point of Edge whenever you make a test based on that Attribute. Thereīs only two differences to AM:
  • The Edge is exclusive to the test. Hurra ::)
  • You donīt get the Edge if you alread get Edge from the AR/DR comparison.

The second "caveat" absolutely killed me. Not only is this quality absolutely broken on its own just like AM, but it also explicitly(!) devaluates Attack and Defense Ratings even further whenever characters with this quality linked to Agility show up. But sure, I guess this will never happen at any table. I mean, who would want free Edge for every single Attack without having to worry about Range, Weapon and modification choices, Firing Modes, Strenght (yeah, so glad that it finally adds to the AR of melee weapons ::)), Armor and tons of other crap from Firing Line thatīs already worthless? Guess I donīt need to update my Signature anytime soon...

How do you even come up with this stuff? Itīs like this was written with the goal to break the game as thoroughly as possible with the least lines of text.

And why tf is this even in a Rigger sourcebook?

No, canīt complain much at all, if it werenīt for the fact that the book also adds a new 3 Karma quality that absolutely fraggs up everything. And not just for Riggers, but for everyone. But hell, at least now we all get to know why SSDR wasnīt able to get a sane version of Analytical Mind through errata  ::)

Yeeaaahhhhh ... there are several of us unhappy about that particular quality, but we got overruled.

Peak insanity. But glad to know that there was at least some resistance  :P

Granted, the rest of the book is pretty neat. Could have used more images, though.
« Last Edit: <10-05-21/1048:16> by Finstersang »
"Firing Line adds a ton of Perks that modify Attack and Defense ratings"

"Cool, does this mean that the whole AR/DR comparison has a bigger impact now?"

"Haha No :D"

Aria

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« Reply #11 on: <10-05-21/1039:47> »
When you put it like that… maybe 20karma is a better idea… or nuking the quality from orbit :D
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Hobbes

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« Reply #12 on: <10-05-21/1229:02> »
I would argue that 3 Karma is the right cost and the rest of the Edge generating Qualities are vastly over costed.  It's reasonable for Combat and Social characters to generate max Edge without any Qualities.  Matrix and Magic characters need to dip into Qualities (of some kind) if they care to generate Edge reliably.   

Gear, Attack Value, Defense Value, Armor Social Value... all give lots of Combat and Social options for Edge, hitting 2 per turn isn't a stretch and spending one of your six Quality slots for a Quality that just duplicates what you're already doing isn't generally worth it.

Magic characters have an embarrassment of Qualities that compete for those six starting Quality slots, and have a bottomless pit of Karma needs post-chargen.  Analytical Mind (or similar) is certainly on the list of things to pick up, but it's not at the top of the list. 

Matrix characters, yep, just take it.  Once we get a Matrix Sourcebook hopefully there will be some other options.

Analytical mind (et al.) are only unbalanced compared to other (arguably over costed) Edge generating Qualities.  Compared to all other Edge generating options they're certainly good, but not broken.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #13 on: <10-05-21/1748:07> »
Eh, it's a nice counter against Analytical Mind. Either that one goes, or this one stays. Me, I'm gonna go for Intuition Mastery, but I can imagine a wheelman might like Reaction Mastery.
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MercilessMing

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« Reply #14 on: <10-05-21/2033:19> »
Hooollleeee crap Attribute Mastery.  I couldn't believe it. 

Quote from: Finstersang
Thereīs only two differences to AM:
The Edge is exclusive to the test. Hurra ::)
Is that in the German edition?  I don't see an exclusion in the English version.

My reaction when I read this: absolutely stupid. 
The CRB section on pg 45 titled "Preventing Edge Abuse" should be amended to read DO NOT LISTEN to the gd designer who thought this was a good idea.
I feel about exactly the same as Finstersang on this - but I'll also agree with Hobbes that the situational edge qualities are too expensive, and a non rushed product would've revealed that.  Different discussion though!

Quote from: Finstersang
The second "caveat" absolutely killed me. Not only is this quality absolutely broken on its own just like AM, but it also explicitly(!) devaluates Attack and Defense Ratings even further whenever characters with this quality linked to Agility show up.
And I'm sure at the time they were like, "What a great way to limit the effect on agility!"

If a quality is an auto-purchase, it's a bad quality.  I hate qualities that are strictly upgrades for this reason.  If a quality is a strict upgrade (focused concentration) why isn't it somewhere in the advancement path? (a strict upgrade doesn't mean something that's just a bonus, it means something that is just a bonus and makes you better at your primary role)
Analytical Mind is such a huge benefit for its cost that *any* character would consider taking it.  And now it's out there for Agility, Intuition, Charisma, whatever your primary stat is.  It's like one farmer complained about wolves attacking his livestock so the government released wolves on all the farmers' livestock to balance it.