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[SR6] Lofwyrs Legions - Drakes?

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Robert

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« on: <01-23-22/0341:17> »
1) According to the new SR6 rules for Drakes I can build RAW a starting character western drake with hardened armor 10. I use the 50 individualization Karma to be Drake and get a few negative qualities that give me 13 Karma to pay for two Dracogenesis, which I choose to be "Hardened Armor". Knowing I will be a drake I choose Edge 6. Plus 2 Dracogenesis plus 2 for being Western Drake = 10. That means the character does not even need to roll for soaking when hit by a Panther XXL with 2 net successes. Doen't that seem a bit overpowered?
Note that the maximum amount of "hardened armor" that a heavy military tank or combat ship can get is 3.

2) For additional 8 Karma, that Drake gets Regeneration, giving him back about 6-8 boxes of damage healing every turn. Not even full dragons have regeneration power, why should drakes have it? Doen't that seem a bit more overpowered?

3) How should I understand the wording "your gamemaster will remove this quality and replace it with the Drake quality" for "Latent Drake"? Will the player have to pay anything for that swap? E.g. 75 karma (as the Drake costs 50, which in game are 100, minus the 25 already payed)? Or does the character get a gift of 25 Karma? Ok, he gains one less power for his first Dracogenesis, which is worth about 6 Karma. Still, that means turning into a full drake via "latent drake" costs in total only 31 Karma versus the base "drake" costing 50?
« Last Edit: <01-23-22/0421:35> by Robert »

Finstersang

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« Reply #1 on: <01-23-22/1712:14> »
Regarding 3)
No, itīs just a 50% smaller price tag with the drawbacks that you canīt control when you will turn into a Dragon for the first time and not getting a second power on the first Dracogenesis. Depending on the DMs timing for D-day, this can be either a really nice deal or an invitation for disaster  :P

Regarding 1) and 2):
To my utter surprise, I actually really really liked the new Drake rules at first! I build a new Character right away (Eastern Drake Physad, bit chliché), turned out fine. A little array of NPC (Drachenschatten Novices to accompany the Elite NPC listed in the book, a Sea Drake Combat Diver...), turned out pretty flavourfull while not being too scary to ever throw at may players. Even got some idea for additional Dracogenesis Powers, like a way to actually profit from selected augmentations in the Dracoform.

Something felt off... was Sixth Edition finally getting on track somehow?

And then I remembered that I already heavily houseruled a lot of Critter Powers, mostly in an effort to give some semblance of balance to Spirits. Hardened Armor only grants Bonus Dice to the Soak roll, not a flat damage reduction. Elemental Attack uses Magic/2 (with the Exeption of Adult Dragons, who continue to use the full value) to calculate the Damage value, as does Engulf and Energy Aura. Regeneration only heals the Net Hits of the roll, without a flat value added on top. It only turned out fine because I already had these houserules.

So yeah, when used with the RAW versions of these Powers, Drakes are absolutely, cartoonishly overpowered. But then again, so have been Spirits for the entire run of this Edition. Once again, the apple is rotting from the core (rulebook) here  ::)
« Last Edit: <01-24-22/0615:00> by Finstersang »

MercilessMing

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« Reply #2 on: <01-24-22/1142:45> »
Yes, I think you calculated all that right, with *maybe* one exception - there's nothing in this supplement saying you can undergo dracogenesis at chargen.  It says it's "similar to initiation and submersion" which you can do at chargen, so you're within reason to infer you can also do this at chargen, but that's the only indicator.

Are drakes in this supplement overpowered?  Yup absolutely, and I think Finstersang nails one big reason why - the powers in the core rulebook are too strong. 

Another reason though is that the considerable negatives that go along with this - Heat, Memorable, Most Wanted - are all related to you being spotted, and Shadowrun players already have lots of options for manipulating their appearance.  Mask, Invisibility, Stealth... the adept power Cosmetic Control 2 seems like it would totally counteract Misshapen, Unsteady Hands, and everything else related to the monstrous appearance.



Aria

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« Reply #3 on: <01-24-22/1855:53> »
Only half the armour is hardened if I'm reading it right, still OP but drakes are the realms of house rules anyway...so much of the balance is in the hands of the GM as the negative penalties should, in theory, be harsh!
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MercilessMing

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« Reply #4 on: <01-25-22/1044:11> »
Only half the armour is hardened if I'm reading it right, still OP but drakes are the realms of house rules anyway...so much of the balance is in the hands of the GM as the negative penalties should, in theory, be harsh!
The part you missed is that the power can be taken twice, the second time converting the entire Armor power to hardened armor.

And on top of that, you can also take a power that increases your Armor power by half your Edge.   Those would work together to further increase the hardened armor. 

And on top of THAT, each time you take a dracogenesis,  your Edge score increases for purposes of drake powers.  So every dracogenesis is another point of hardened armor.  It's easy to see that this number quickly spirals to insane levels, and dracogenesis will continue to be a really high ROI on advancement karma.  At rank 6, which costs 6+7+8+9+10+11, or 51 karma (really not that much, its like getting to initiate level 4), and Edge 6, you could have the following regardless of drake type:
1: Hardened Armor
2: Hardened Armor
3: Mystic Armor
4: Hardened Mystic Armor
5: Hardened Mystic Armor
6: Improved Armor

Starting Edge 6, +6 edge from dracogenesis, and you get:
18 points hardened armor
18 points hardened mystic armor

WHICH IS INSANE.

Any prime runner start (prime runner start is simply 100 starting karma instead of 50) could achieve stupid, stupid high numbers like that.  The numbers are so high in fact, that you could NOT take the 2nd level of hardened armor or hardened mystic armor, pick two MORE powers, and still come out with 9 points of hardened mystic and regular armor, which is plenty for effective immunity to normal weapons AND magic damage.
« Last Edit: <01-25-22/1048:41> by MercilessMing »

Finstersang

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« Reply #5 on: <01-25-22/1328:06> »
Jeez, thatīs even somewhat broken when you let Hardened Armor only add Soak Dice  :o