[Teyl_Iliar]

There are two easy ways to mess with mages:

A) Increased technology. Mages suck at taking out objects with a decent structure rating or object resistance. A couple of mini-gun turrets with Redundant Processing R2 (OR = 7) will ruin pretty much any mages day
B) Counter magic: Wagemages can provide wards and counterspelling which can seriously limit (if not completely sut down) an opposing magician.

The panic room idea is solid (but expensive, so isn't going to show up just everywhere). Mages using fibre-optic links can spellcast normally (although the standard -2 dice for cover normall applies). The mage doesn't need to spend essence, but can sit quiety in the equivalent of a rigger room, and as long as every fibre optic cable is linked to every room, then the entire base is covered. This counts as an optical enhancement, which is perfectly legitimate for most Sorcery tasks (especially Direct combat spells and Mental Manipulations)

Note, this includes COUNTERSPELLING. Ergo, a mage can sit in the panic room, and provide Counterspelling dice to any target the runners are fighting.

This also includes conjuring. As the runners move from room to room, there can be a spirit summoning every time (dep[ending on drain requirements), and watchers in there warning that further violence will not be tolerated, we're watching you etc etc.

Ergo, mage panic rooms are bad.

Oh ghost. This brings back memories. I remember very well looking this up in horror.

Only one piece of tech out there that I know of that can be used to cast without direct eye sight. but it is mana tech. Mage sight goggles. You have a 30 ft/meter wire that you can tuck around places and cast as though you where right there and in LOS. let me tell you. That stuff gets frigging scary when it's been run across a full facility.  One mage with casting eyes in every hallway and corner. Suddenly stun balls and spirits are all over you, and the security forces have counter spelling from ghost only knows where. My whole crew and I where mono wire close to getting TPWO'ed. We got lucky in two ways. 1 I made the perception test to tell that there where odd ports on the walls that kept snaking in and out looking at us just before we got hit so we started shooting them out, and 2. because our mage who was counterspelling for us, used a compulsion spell on the biggest troll in the bunch to go pop their mage, then comeback to geek all their friends. If it hadn't worked, we would have been FRAGGED.

[shion]

Turning out the lights so you couldn't be seen wasn't an option?  Smoke grenade?  Improved invisibility?

[Zilfer]

Turning out the lights so you couldn't be seen wasn't an option?  Smoke grenade?  Improved invisibility?

The question is can they astral perception through that wire? If so not sure invisibility would help. xD

[shion]

stick to the high tech smoke then.  But even if you could astrally perceive, the mage itself is not dual natured.  And can you attack a spell cast on the physical plain?  Essentially could some astral projector dispell from astral space folks spells?

[Charybdis]

Turning out the lights so you couldn't be seen wasn't an option?  Smoke grenade?  Improved invisibility?

The question is can they astral perception through that wire? If so not sure invisibility would help. xD

Standard rule is if you can't see through obstructions under normal circumstances (walls, foliage, dust/smoke etc), then Astral Perception won't work either.

Ergo smoke provides the same benfits against Astral Perception as it does against normal vision.

stick to the high tech smoke then.  But even if you could astrally perceive, the mage itself is not dual natured.  And can you attack a spell cast on the physical plain?  Essentially could some astral projector dispell from astral space folks spells?

Clarification: Astrally Perceiving creatures ARE dual-natured.

So, an Astrally Projected mage should be able to give counterspelling dice to an Astrally Perceiving creature/Ally, but this will only be of benefit against MANA spells (as Physical spells have no presence on the Astral Plane, and thus cannot be affected/counterspelled by an Astrally Projecting entity)

[shion]

Turning out the lights so you couldn't be seen wasn't an option?  Smoke grenade?  Improved invisibility?

The question is can they astral perception through that wire? If so not sure invisibility would help. xD

Standard rule is if you can't see through obstructions under normal circumstances (walls, foliage, dust/smoke etc), then Astral Perception won't work either.

Ergo smoke provides the same benfits against Astral Perception as it does against normal vision.

stick to the high tech smoke then.  But even if you could astrally perceive, the mage itself is not dual natured.  And can you attack a spell cast on the physical plain?  Essentially could some astral projector dispell from astral space folks spells?

Clarification: Astrally Perceiving creatures ARE dual-natured.

So, an Astrally Projected mage should be able to give counterspelling dice to an Astrally Perceiving creature/Ally, but this will only be of benefit against MANA spells (as Physical spells have no presence on the Astral Plane, and thus cannot be affected/counterspelled by an Astrally Projecting entity)

No I meant someone argued that the mage in the safe box could astrally percieve over their mage sight goggles to affect your invisibility spell.  I wondered if a mage in astrall space, or one who is astrally percieving, can affect sustained spells cast on the physical plain.  Essentially is the spell itself "dual natured"

[Zilfer]

^I'm also curious does invisibility affect astral perceiving?

[wastedwalker]

Invisibility spells have no effect in the astral. It is in the book somewhere. As I have read it when you are astrally perceiving smoke and things like that in a room won't hide an astral body from you, yes you have to have assensing to see them but once you do you can blast away with any mana spell you have. Spirits with the conceal power are how you stay hidden in/from the astral since their power covers you on both sides of the coin.

[shion]

I was actually assuming your standard improved invisibility wouldn't work in astral.  But I'm interested in knowing if someone who is astral noticing the magician that is sustaining the  spell can interfere with the spell, you obviously can't attack the magician sustaining since he's not astrally perceiving.  So is a spell dual natured when it comes to being targeted by folks who are in astral.   This would also mean that if someone was say shape changed, could you astrally project, travel over to the flying bird, and then stop the sustained shape change spell while they're in mid air.

[Zilfer]

I was actually assuming your standard improved invisibility wouldn't work in astral.  But I'm interested in knowing if someone who is astral noticing the magician that is sustaining the  spell can interfere with the spell, you obviously can't attack the magician sustaining since he's not astrally perceiving.  So is a spell dual natured when it comes to being targeted by folks who are in astral.   This would also mean that if someone was say shape changed, could you astrally project, travel over to the flying bird, and then stop the sustained shape change spell while they're in mid air.

That reminds me of last week when we played DnD

a boat out on the water was summoning an Aboleth and Firebusters (orcs that are red and beefed up a little more) were storming the beach. Well after the Firebusters were mostly killed the aboleth finally arrived from the spell casters on the boat about 100 meters out or so. So this monk with horseshoes of the zypfer grabs a heavily armored dwarf and goes out towards the ship. One of the mages to be seen isn't chanting with the others, he looks at the horse charging over water with those two and.....

Polymorph other!

Horse turned into a fish. <.< Now there's a dwarf in full plate that weights god knows how much skining with all his combat weapons, trying to done his armor before he drowns in the bottom of the sea. XD You should have seen their faces.  (the monk also never recovered the fish that simply swam away while he was trying to help the dwarf take off his full plate.)

Needless to say they were out of it for the rest of the battle, was halarious. xD

Anyways back on topic

If that is so that would mean you could do it to any sustained spell right? Also i do know you can SEE the spells they have cast on them.

[wastedwalker]

The second the mage has a spell going he is Dual natured and is open to all sorts of fun things. Means he goes down if he is forced through a warded area *By the way, cheap trick is to make it where a mage has to levitate to get passed and area and slap a ward right in his way, he has to either push through or fight the ward and either way alerts the caster of the ward.*

[Zilfer]

The second the mage has a spell going he is Dual natured and is open to all sorts of fun things. Means he goes down if he is forced through a warded area *By the way, cheap trick is to make it where a mage has to levitate to get passed and area and slap a ward right in his way, he has to either push through or fight the ward and either way alerts the caster of the ward.*

because he has to levitate thus he has a spell active when passing through the ward and then the caster knows? Alright interesting.

What if he just pulls out his trusty grappling hook?

[wastedwalker]

GM: "Ok you get to the shaft where the guys disappeared to, you notice it is a smooth shaft that goes straight up into the mountain, doesn't appear to be any footholds on the sides."

Mage: "Ok I start levitating up the shaft with the group."

GM: "Ok that shaft goes on for a while, are you doing anything while you travel up?"

Mage: "I am assensing as I go, my spells are sustained through my Foci."

GM: "Ok, well you can see a ward is right in your way, what do you do?"

Now the mage has to either push through or break down the ward *which even if it is a weak one the caster of the ward will know if he pushes through or breaks it down* so the caster of the ward knows he is there. An alternate option is to go astral, and track down the caster of the ward, get his astral sig and change yours to match and have enough successes to beat the ward. He then can move through the ward with no issues since it will see him as the caster.

[Zilfer]

GM: "Ok you get to the shaft where the guys disappeared to, you notice it is a smooth shaft that goes straight up into the mountain, doesn't appear to be any footholds on the sides."

Mage: "Ok I start levitating up the shaft with the group."

GM: "Ok that shaft goes on for a while, are you doing anything while you travel up?"

Mage: "I am assensing as I go, my spells are sustained through my Foci."

GM: "Ok, well you can see a ward is right in your way, what do you do?"

Now the mage has to either push through or break down the ward *which even if it is a weak one the caster of the ward will know if he pushes through or breaks it down* so the caster of the ward knows he is there. An alternate option is to go astral, and track down the caster of the ward, get his astral sig and change yours to match and have enough successes to beat the ward. He then can move through the ward with no issues since it will see him as the caster.

Well too bad there's no go around option. XD

[wastedwalker]

And if it is a time sensitive thing he doesn't have time to set everyone down and track the guy down. If the mage happens to know they are already there it is a moot point to have this happen but if the guy can't seem to break down the ward fast enough or he doesn't have the ability to push off the sustaining negative... well lets just say it is a jerk move but it is a fun roadblock. If your street same happens to have a climbers rigging or you have flying drones that can set them then you are good.