[Wu Jen]

Gunslinger Adept with Cybereyes with Smartlink, Cybereyes set to Wireless off.

Smartlinked gun set to wireless off.

Gunslinger has Data Jack (Wireless on), and has the Perfect Time Quality, as well as Rapid Draw & Nimble Fingers (Why not rack up more free actions!)

Combat begins and enemy decker goes first and spots icons, Datajack would show up, but just the normal RFIDs for clothing armor etc.

Gunslinger goes next: (1st Action this turn) Free Action - Quickdraws smartgun, Simple Action - Connects his cable from the Datajack to the smartgun. Simple Action - Fires a shot / burst. (Free Action - Perfect time) Turns wireless off for Smartgun.

The gunslinger should get the bonus since when firing his smartgun was linked to his cybereyes that had the smartlink and DNI was active with wireless on. The Gun would be able to download and get its information.

After that it's just (Free Action (your cabled now) - Turn on Wireless, Simple Fire gun, Simple Turn off Wireless etc.

You guys know the rules better than me, appreciate any insight!

Would you have to have an internal router ? So your cybereyes(smartlink) could talk to your datajack?

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Generally what you're *supposed* to do in order to defend against hackers is have a hacker of your own doing matrix overwatch.

Failing that, it's a measly free action (in 5th edition) to turn all your drek wireless off, so there's precious little reason to run around wireless off.  An enemy hacker only gets one shot, if you ruthlessly use all the tools available to you.


Of course, it's not very *fun* to tell the decker "no, you can't hack anything".  It's very akin to a sammie going "I don't use magic.  I'm just going 'Astral Off'", if that were an available option.

[Xenon]

"The smartgun features are accessed either by universal access port cable to an imaging device (like glasses, goggles, or a datajack for someone with cybereyes) or by a wireless connection working in concert with direct neural interface."

In the first case you can have a wireless disabled smartgun connected to your wireless disabled datajack which is connected via your neural interface (not to be confused with DNI) with your wireless disabled cybereyes which are enhanced with a smartlink.

By doing this the smartgun will tell you the range to various targets, as well as ammunition level (and type), heat buildup, mechanical stress and so on. Mechanically this give you +2 to your weapon's Accuracy Limit. It also let you shoot around corners via the on-board mini-camera without taking the Blind Fire modifier (instead you take the Attacker Firing From Cover With Imaging Device modifier). You also get to switch firing mode and eject clip without actually touching buttons on the firearm, but it take Simple Actions to do this.

Most importantly your smartgun system is immune to hacking.



In the second case the device you use to 'access the matrix with' must be wireless enabled (this is typically a commlink but can also be a cyberdeck or RCC) and you must connect a wireless enabled smartgun with wireless enabled cybereyes while at the same time having access to DNI.

By doing this you still get +2 Accuracy and firing around corners without Blind Fire, but you also get to compensate for wind by 1 level, get both Accuracy Limit and Dice Pool modifier during Take Aim, you get a positive dice pool modifier of 2 dice when shooting and now you get to eject clip and switch firing mode as a free action.

In this option your smartgun system is open for hacking.
If you get wireless bonuses then you can typically also be hacked.



If you have an internal router then you still need the device you use to 'access the matrix with' to be wireless enabled, have a wireless enabled smartgun and you still need to have access to DNI, but your cyberyes may in this case be wireless disabled.

In this option only your smartgun, but not your smartlink (so only half of your smartgun system), is open to hacking while still being eligible for all the listed wireless benefits.

Combat begins and enemy decker goes first and spots icons, Datajack would show up, but just the normal RFIDs for clothing armor etc.

Also the shooters matrix persona would show up.

By placing a mark on that the hacker can take the spoof command action on any device in the network without first placing a mark on the individual device (and by delaying an action I guess he could technically take that action after the shooter turn wireless on but before turning wireless off again...?)

By bricking the shooters matrix persona the shooter would no longer be connected to the matrix and option number two would no longer be an option (at least until he reboots his backup commlink and forms his matrix persona on that device instead).

By bricking the shooters datajack the shooter would no longer have access to DNI and both option number one and two would no longer be valid options (at least until he puts on his backup trodes and gain DNI from that instead).

Gunslinger goes next: (1st Action this turn) Free Action - Quickdraws smartgun, Simple Action - Connects his cable from the Datajack to the smartgun. Simple Action - Fires a shot / burst. (Free Action - Perfect time) Turns wireless off for Smartgun.

Why could not the gun be connected to his datajack via a cable while in the holster (this is how we did it all the time in earlier editions when there was no wireless matrix).

At what point are you turning wireless ON in the smartgun? If I read you correctly the wireless disabled gun is now connected with a wire to your smartlink in your wireless disabled eyes via your datajack which mean you are now eligible for option number 1, which indeed is immune to hacking. But also does not grant you +2 dice pool when firing or any of the other wireless bonuses you might like to get.

To become eligible for option number two the smartgun system (both the smartgun and cyberyes where you have your smartlink) need to be wireless enabled.

The Gun would be able to download and get its information.

You first need to turn the smartgun wireless ON at some point before firing. It can not access the matrix via proxy via another device that is wireless enabled. The device itself need to be wireless enabled (in this edition).

[Wu Jen]

"The smartgun features are accessed either by universal access port cable to an imaging device (like glasses, goggles, or a datajack for someone with cybereyes) or by a wireless connection working in concert with direct neural interface."

In the first case you can have a wireless disabled smartgun connected to your wireless disabled datajack which is connected via your neural interface (not to be confused with DNI) with your wireless disabled cybereyes which are enhanced with a smartlink.

By doing this the smartgun will tell you the range to various targets, as well as ammunition level (and type), heat buildup, mechanical stress and so on. Mechanically this give you +2 to your weapon's Accuracy Limit. It also let you shoot around corners via the on-board mini-camera without taking the Blind Fire modifier (instead you take the Attacker Firing From Cover With Imaging Device modifier). You also get to switch firing mode and eject clip without actually touching buttons on the firearm, but it take Simple Actions to do this.

Most importantly your smartgun system is immune to hacking.



In the second case the device you use to 'access the matrix with' must be wireless enabled (this is typically a commlink but can also be a cyberdeck or RCC) and you must connect a wireless enabled smartgun with wireless enabled cybereyes while at the same time having access to DNI.

By doing this you still get +2 Accuracy and firing around corners without Blind Fire, but you also get to compensate for wind by 1 level, get both Accuracy Limit and Dice Pool modifier during Take Aim, you get a positive dice pool modifier of 2 dice when shooting and now you get to eject clip and switch firing mode as a free action.

In this option your smartgun system is open for hacking.
If you get wireless bonuses then you can typically also be hacked.



If you have an internal router then you still need the device you use to 'access the matrix with' to be wireless enabled, have a wireless enabled smartgun and you still need to have access to DNI, but your cyberyes may in this case be wireless disabled.

In this option only your smartgun, but not your smartlink (so only half of your smartgun system), is open to hacking while still being eligible for all the listed wireless benefits.

Combat begins and enemy decker goes first and spots icons, Datajack would show up, but just the normal RFIDs for clothing armor etc.

Also the shooters matrix persona would show up.

By placing a mark on that the hacker can take the spoof command action on any device in the network without first placing a mark on the individual device (and by delaying an action I guess he could technically take that action after the shooter turn wireless on but before turning wireless off again...?)

By bricking the shooters matrix persona the shooter would no longer be connected to the matrix and option number two would no longer be an option (at least until he reboots his backup commlink and forms his matrix persona on that device instead).

By bricking the shooters datajack the shooter would no longer have access to DNI and both option number one and two would no longer be valid options (at least until he puts on his backup trodes and gain DNI from that instead).

Gunslinger goes next: (1st Action this turn) Free Action - Quickdraws smartgun, Simple Action - Connects his cable from the Datajack to the smartgun. Simple Action - Fires a shot / burst. (Free Action - Perfect time) Turns wireless off for Smartgun.

Why could not the gun be connected to his datajack via a cable while in the holster (this is how we did it all the time in earlier editions when there was no wireless matrix).

At what point are you turning wireless ON in the smartgun? If I read you correctly the wireless disabled gun is now connected with a wire to your smartlink in your wireless disabled eyes via your datajack which mean you are now eligible for option number 1, which indeed is immune to hacking. But also does not grant you +2 dice pool when firing or any of the other wireless bonuses you might like to get.

To become eligible for option number two the smartgun system (both the smartgun and cyberyes where you have your smartlink) need to be wireless enabled.

The Gun would be able to download and get its information.

You first need to turn the smartgun wireless ON at some point before firing. It can not access the matrix via proxy via another device that is wireless enabled. The device itself need to be wireless enabled (in this edition).

So a simpler method would be to wireless off everything at the end of your initiative pass, what action is it to turn all of your wireless on again? Simple, Complex, Free?

The effect I was looking for would it be possible to have your wireless off, turn wireless on, then fire a single shot, burst etc, then wireless off again.  Repeat ad infinitum...

If all those actions could be done during your Initiative Pass you would be 'theoretically' hackproof before and after your shot, but the player could still retain your matrix (wireless) bonus while actually shooting. 

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

You have to turn each piece back on one at a time... there's no "everything wireless-on!" counter-action to turning everything wireless off.


Generally, again: if you want to be hackproof, then just don't use wireless bonuses (or smartguns).

If you want those cool things, then you're supposed to have to face the risk of being hacked.  Not sure if running silent was mentioned already (in order to force the hacker to waste time), but the combination of running silent and then using a free action to turn everything off at the first sign of trouble is going to cover you for 99% hackproof "getting to have your cake AND eat it too" wireless bonuses.  It's super cheesy and 100% unfair to the decker/TM, but it's legal.

[Wu Jen]

So if your smart gun is wireless off but connected to your datajack via a cable and your data jack is set to wireless on and you have an internal router and your cybereyes are set to wireless off. Your comlink is set to wireless on.

Shouldn't you be able to get wireless bonus and just turn the data jack wireless on and off during your intitiative pass to protect your system?

Gun should get wireless bonus because it is cabled to your datajack.
Cybereyes should get the bonus because they are connected via internal router to your data jack.
The data jack should be the only thing you would have to turn wireless on and off.
You would leave the comlink wireless enabled and if it get bricked then your just back to not having the +2 die.

[Wu Jen]

So if your smart gun is wireless off but connected to your datajack via a cable and your data jack is set to wireless on and you have an internal router and your cybereyes are set to wireless off. Your comlink is set to wireless on.

Shouldn't you be able to get wireless bonus and just turn the data jack wireless on and off during your intitiative pass to protect your system?

Gun should get wireless bonus because it is cabled to your datajack.
Cybereyes should get the bonus because they are connected via internal router to your data jack.
The data jack should be the only thing you would have to turn wireless on and off.
You would leave the comlink wireless enabled and if it gets bricked then your just back to not having the +2 die.

Then of course if your super paranoid, you could have a second datajack and run a cable to your comlink.

Then you would just turn wireless on and off with your comlink instead of datajack and you should be gtg.

Very convoluted I know, just brainstorming how a non decker could protect their stuff without having a decker always watching out for you.

[Michael Chandra]

The idea of wireless bonuses is cloud computing etc etc. Mechanically it is meant to get a bonus for a risk. Avoiding the risk means avoiding the bonus. If you wire, it's safe connections but no benefits.

[Wu Jen]

The idea of wireless bonuses is cloud computing etc etc. Mechanically it is meant to get a bonus for a risk. Avoiding the risk means avoiding the bonus. If you wire, it's safe connections but no benefits.

I would be more inclined to allow a player to spend 0.7 int router, 0.1 data jack 1, 0.1 datajack 2, 0.2 cyber eyes (lowest rating possible for smartlink) 1.1 essence and having to take perfect time perk, (GM's don't have to allow you to convert simple to free actions!) to get additional free actions, as well as having to be limited to what they could do each initiative phase to get that +2 bonus dice.

If the writers wanted you to just use wireless to get the bonus then they should have removed cabling options altogether, IMO. If you really wanted to simplify the system then don't give the players a work around.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

As an aside... you don't need cybereyes to get smartlink cyberware.  you can do the essence cost instead of capacity and just put them in your eyeballs.

[Michael Chandra]

If the writers wanted you to just use wireless to get the bonus then they should have removed cabling options altogether, IMO. If you really wanted to simplify the system then don't give the players a work around.

They wrote in wireless: bonus X. All other functionality you can get with wires, but not the explicit wireless bonuses.

[Xenon]

...what action is it to turn all of your wireless on again? Simple, Complex, Free?

You can't.

If they are all turned off you need to manually activate them one by one. Normally by pressing a button on the device itself, which is typically a simple action. There are exceptions. For example, cyberware (that are attached to your body) are connected via neural interface while wireless disabled and may typically be activated with a free action.


Also note that it cost 1 free action to turn off wireless in ONE device or 1 free action to turn off wireless in ALL your devices. There is no pick and choose here.

If you turn off wireless in ALL your devices as a free action then also your commlink and your drones and your camera and all your other devices will go off-line. And then you need to manually activate wireless in all your devices, one by one.

The effect I was looking for would it be possible to have your wireless off, turn wireless on, then fire a single shot, burst etc, then wireless off again.

If you are that paranoid about getting hacked, use option number 1.
It can not be hacked. You still gain +2 Accuracy and can still fire around corners.
If you never plan on using option 2 then you also don't need to spend essence on datajacks and smartlinks (just put the smartlink in your goggles and attach the cable from your gun to your goggles directly).

Or use option number 2, but accept that you in some distant future might be hacked.

...then, if you are paranoid, you spend a complex action every combat turn on full matrix defense, and at the slightest indication that you might get hacked, turn off everything and go back to option number 1.
And also, carry a backup gun.
(in Shadowrun even your continuity plan should have a continuity plan, always).

Gun should get wireless bonus because it is cabled to your datajack.

Nope.
If the gun is wireless disabled then it cannot be hacked.
Even if it is connected to a wireless enabled device.

If the gun is wireless disabled then it cannot get wireless bonuses.
Even if it is connected to a wireless enabled device.

You don't gain matrix connectivity via proxy (in this edition).
The device itself need to be wireless enabled (in SR5 you can almost think of the network topology as blue-tooth, but instead of 10 meter handshake range you have world wide range).

Your gear provide you with a wireless bonus? That typically mean your gear can be hacked.

Cybereyes should get the bonus because they are connected via internal router to your data jack.

If your table allow Internal Router then your internal cyberware (such as your internal smartlink enhancement) does not have to be wireless enabled.

But your external smartgun still need to be wireless enabled for you to gain wireless bonuses of having a wireless enabled smartgun system.

I would be more inclined to allow a player to spend...

This is the kicker. As a GM you have every right to house rule as much as you like. You don't need to find loopholes in the rules as written. You don't need to seek our approval. You just change them. Declare that at your table the follow house rule is in effect. Just be fair towards your players and be up-front about it.

I think pretty much every single table have some house-rules.

There is no rule-police that will punish you if you adjust the rules to better fit you and your table. Many of us already have house rules in effect when it comes to wireless bonuses and hacking.

Reason why we argue RAW right now is because you are posting in the Rules part of the forum and you are asking how it works in RAW - which mean we will try to help you understand the the rules both as they are currently written but also how they are actually intended.

If the writers wanted you to just use wireless to get the bonus then they should have removed cabling options altogether, IMO. If you really wanted to simplify the system then don't give the players a work around.

They are pretty clear (RAI) in that if you want a wireless bonus from your gear then you connect wireless (and by the name of it you can almost tell that this means 'without using wires').

Fluff wise you can argue that your piece of gear get more powerful and you get to act faster if it may draw intel in real-time directly from the matrix, borrow computing power from nearby devices and you getting unlimited bandwidth to it and it to your other devices.

If you want to avoid getting hacked then you instead connect a wire.

There is no magic work-around at play here.

You are just trying to be 'smart' by finding loopholes in the rules as they are written. This is typically what the GM is there to shutdown... but in this case you claim you are the GM - so I am a bit confused of your intentions here to be honest ;-)

Everything has a price.

If a player wants a benefits then the GM is there to make sure they also pay the price.
You typically can't have your cake and eat it too.

[Wu Jen]

So basically simplification of rules.

Although I find it strange that cabling is slower and can handle less bandwith than wireless, the sixth world is truly amazing!

[Michael Chandra]

It's not about the bandwidth. It's about cloud computing.

[Xenon]

Although I find it strange that cabling is slower and can handle less bandwith than wireless, the sixth world is truly amazing!

You are not the only one wondering why it often take a simple action to send a mental command via a wire but a free action if you send the same mental command by using wireless

Probably better to not think too much on this one.