Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Vidnaut on <12-24-13/2140:28>
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Discussing sports rifles and sniper rifles in the Gun H(e)aven when the "strength" of a sports rifle is that it can it's only "R" instead of "F" got me thinking about if that really is (effectively) a plus. Then the thought occurred to me that both an Ingram Smartgun X and Ares Predator V are both considered restricted and likewise with machine pistols. Is there really a much broader acceptance of how much heat somebody is packing when one factors in near-ubiquitous (and sometimes subtle) armor, the close proximity of civilization and Z-Zones, and certain metatypes *coughtrogscough*? I mean, you could get a (fake) license for a big, honking assault rifle to open-carry legally but how far can you really push it until the gun in your hand might as well be Forbidden from the amount of negative attention one attracts (up until injuring a person of course!) regardless if you (objectively) have legal dispensation to saunter down the street (as a troll in Renton no less!) with it across your shoulder like you own the place? What about your Ingram Smartgun X (with license that passes the scanner test) broadcasting from your PAN as opposed to, say a Fichetti Security 600 or Ares Predator V?
Now, common sense tells me its SOP to keep any and all hardware concealed until it needs to do the job (and the more eyebrow-raising ones running silent) you brought with you for but there are a lot of things that change the equation to where my common sense is out of its depth for the realities of the SR setting.
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You can get a license for R weapons, but you have to be careful what you do with them. Walking into a high security neighborhood with full body armor and a machine gun is going to bring the heat, no matter what license you have in your wallet. They might (might) not arrest you, but you are going to have to get up close and personal with security, who will check your ID and documents, snap a picture of your face, and play 20 questions about who the heck you are and what the heck you are doing. Better have a cover story and some solid social skills on tap, and even if you don't get pinched you will probably be under close watch until you leave the zone. And if you are carrying (or have implanted) anything with an F rating, things are going to go down hill in a hurry.
Also, just like in real life, a license to carry does not mean you have a license to bring a weapon anywhere you want. If an orc with an assault rifle walks into Stuffer Shack, the clerk is stomping on the panic button, not asking to see your license. And the little "no weapons allowed" sticker on the front door means the cops can just shoot you when they get there.
In general, I would say the following as to zones and open hardware-
Barrens- whatever goes. Looking like a gun toting loonie is a plus, and wear whatever armor you want. The security at the bar might still taser/shoot you from behind if you look like you are looking for trouble. Also, if a neighborhood is run by a gang or criminal group, you want to look tough, but not like you are about to start something, which could be taken as a challenge. They might preemptively shoot you 90 times and toss your body in the river.
Low lifestyle areas- An armor jacket doesn't bring much notice, full body armor and obvious combat firearms do.
Middle life style- A lined coat or an armored jumpsuit are ok, keep the guns concealed, make sure you are broadcasting a solid sin.
High or better- Expect heavy scrutiny. Dress like you belong there, either because you are high quality, or because you are the plumber, gardener, mailman, etc, and thus can be safely ignored. Have an ironclad SIN and do your homework about checkpoints, you may need to pass a MAD scanner, security inspection, or even magical security to get in and out of areas.
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It varies a lot depending on who is in charge of a particular area, as well. Compare modern-day Seattle with modern-day Dallas, TX.
Both cities technically allow open-carry of firearms, but if you walked into a Seattle 7-11 with a revolver peeking out of your jacket, the clerk might hit the panic button, and the police will want to haev a word with you regardless of whether you're breaking any laws. In Dallas you could walk in with Desert Eagles on both hips and a revolver on your belt buckle and if anyone tried to call the cops they would be laughed at.
I would imagine the same thing is true of SR, with guns, or even the right guns being more or less allowed in certain areas depending on what the "owners" of that area feel is appropriate. If you're inside an Ares arcology, a citizen might be looked at funny for not at least carrying a pistol as a sign of corp pride. A stretch of Barrens run by a paranoid gang-boss might not allow weapons to be carried by anyone unless they're in the gang and wearing the colors.
The GM can tailor these preferences and attitudes to give locations more variety and character. Imagine infiltrating an Ares facility and getting stopped for carrying an HK pistol, while the street sam gets much less scrutiny because his assault rifle is the right brand.
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Anarkitty I know it's popular to think of Texas as the mother of all gun nations, but if you walked into a Dallas 7-11 with two Desert Eagle handguns on your hip and a revolver in your belt, you'd more likely than not be arrested.
Take a look at Texas Penal Code 46.02 if you don't believe me.
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm
Point is: if you're going to open carry at any time, be prepared to be hassled by the cops. Same applies to Shadowrun as far as I'm concerned.
Carry that legal AR on your back in downtown Seattle, but you better hope your SIN checks out all nice and shiny like. And if you're not broadcasting a (seemingly) valid SIN with (seemingly) valid licenses that match the broadcasting RFID tags on said weapon, your life is about to become somewhat of a mess...
You could probably get away with carrying a Remington 950 sport rifle in rural parts of Snohomish all day every day, on the other hand...
But that's just my view on the setting. I'm fairly agreed with baronspam on his assessment of lifestyle, though I would break it down by security Z through AAA zones in a somewhat similar fashion, as per the revised HTR Response Team table on page 356.
Z-zone (Glow City, Puyallup, or the majority of the Redmond Barrens): Anything goes. But don't look too tough or well armed, or someone's gonna want to steal your shit for themselves...
C-zone (Puyallup City, or Touristville, Redmond): Same as above as the cops only come rolling in if you cause wanton destruction, so exercise minimum caution
B-zone (most of the Auburn (industrial) or Renton (low to mid-level housing) districts): Carrying a concealed weapon is unlikely to get you into trouble, but full body armor and assault rifles with grenade launchers are no longer accepted. Basically, make sure you have licenses for restricted firearms, and don't show off your forbidden ones at all
A-zone (high-end housing in almost all Seattle districts, outskirts of downtown): Carrying openly is no longer an option if you want to remain anonymous. Carry a valid SIN and openly broadcast any concealed carry license for restricted firearms. The combat jacket might need to stay at home depending on the neighbourhood
AA-zone (most of the Bellevue district not owned by the megas, business districts of downtown): Make sure your SIN is of good quality, and your licenses even more so. Dress professionally, meaning jeans and an armored vest is likely to attract attention
AAA-zone (most of central downtown Seattle, and best areas of Bellevue): Business/fashion attire only, no obvious weapons, best SIN (and licenses, if you plan on concealing a weapon) money can buy
That's my view of parts of Seattle, at least. Your mileage may vary depending on location. Keep in mind that places like Neo-Tokyo allows you to carry a katana nearly everywhere, but includes a total ban on all firearms unless your police or military (or megacorporate security), whereas nobody is likely to bother you for open carrying an AR in Bogota cirka 2074, for instance.
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Walking into a high security neighborhood with [...] a machine gun is going to bring the heat, no matter what license you have in your wallet.
(L/M/H)MGs, ARs, and most Shotguns, SMGs or MPs cannot readily be holstered. If you carry them (as opposed to transporting them), they're probably just going to be on a sling (possibly under a duster/long-coat), and/or in your hands. This is why they draw heat.
The potential for indiscriminate property damage with FA/BF/Shotgun weapons is going to draw additional attention from corp security forces. Personnel losses are a secondary concern (keeping in mind they are personnel too, mostly). However, a decker (or face) can probably arrange in advance for a "pass" that will get you to the other side of their territory (or halfway into it).
LS/KE is mostly going to care about your licenses (which you're probably not going to have to their satisfaction, even for the upper range of Rs, much less Fs), and confiscation/arrests, because that's money to them in a literal sense. They are the least likely to be faked out, but reassurances (aka Acting group skills) that you're not going a problem and a "dropped" credstick or two may be effective. There's also the greatest likelihood of an actual license being available, for whatever you need to be walking around with, within reason. Just be careful about what corp sponsor is listed on it, if any.
Street gangs just see "stuff", and how they behave will depend on whether you look like you can keep your stuff (and/or take theirs) or not, and secondarily whether or not you appear to be a direct threat to them and their turf. Negotiation in advance with someone at the top of the heap may get you a guide/escort who can wave you past all but the most intransigent gutterpunks (or your escorts' rivals).
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It varies a lot depending on who is in charge of a particular area, as well. Compare modern-day Seattle with modern-day Dallas, TX.
Both cities technically allow open-carry of firearms, but if you walked into a Seattle 7-11 with a revolver peeking out of your jacket, the clerk might hit the panic button, and the police will want to haev a word with you regardless of whether you're breaking any laws. In Dallas you could walk in with Desert Eagles on both hips and a revolver on your belt buckle and if anyone tried to call the cops they would be laughed at.
This isn't accurate, Open Carry is Illegal in TX.
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Anarkitty I know it's popular to think of Texas as the mother of all gun nations, but if you walked into a Dallas 7-11 with two Desert Eagle handguns on your hip and a revolver in your belt, you'd more likely than not be arrested.
Take a look at Texas Penal Code 46.02 if you don't believe me.
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm
Point is: if you're going to open carry at any time, be prepared to be hassled by the cops. Same applies to Shadowrun as far as I'm concerned.
Carry that legal AR on your back in downtown Seattle, but you better hope your SIN checks out all nice and shiny like. And if you're not broadcasting a (seemingly) valid SIN with (seemingly) valid licenses that match the broadcasting RFID tags on said weapon, your life is about to become somewhat of a mess...
You could probably get away with carrying a Remington 950 sport rifle in rural parts of Snohomish all day every day, on the other hand...
But that's just my view on the setting. I'm fairly agreed with baronspam on his assessment of lifestyle, though I would break it down by security Z through AAA zones in a somewhat similar fashion, as per the revised HTR Response Team table on page 356.
Z-zone (Glow City, Puyallup, or the majority of the Redmond Barrens): Anything goes. But don't look too tough or well armed, or someone's gonna want to steal your shit for themselves...
C-zone (Puyallup City, or Touristville, Redmond): Same as above as the cops only come rolling in if you cause wanton destruction, so exercise minimum caution
B-zone (most of the Auburn (industrial) or Renton (low to mid-level housing) districts): Carrying a concealed weapon is unlikely to get you into trouble, but full body armor and assault rifles with grenade launchers are no longer accepted. Basically, make sure you have licenses for restricted firearms, and don't show off your forbidden ones at all
A-zone (high-end housing in almost all Seattle districts, outskirts of downtown): Carrying openly is no longer an option if you want to remain anonymous. Carry a valid SIN and openly broadcast any concealed carry license for restricted firearms. The combat jacket might need to stay at home depending on the neighbourhood
AA-zone (most of the Bellevue district not owned by the megas, business districts of downtown): Make sure your SIN is of good quality, and your licenses even more so. Dress professionally, meaning jeans and an armored vest is likely to attract attention
AAA-zone (most of central downtown Seattle, and best areas of Bellevue): Business/fashion attire only, no obvious weapons, best SIN (and licenses, if you plan on concealing a weapon) money can buy
That's my view of parts of Seattle, at least. Your mileage may vary depending on location. Keep in mind that places like Neo-Tokyo allows you to carry a katana nearly everywhere, but includes a total ban on all firearms unless your police or military (or megacorporate security), whereas nobody is likely to bother you for open carrying an AR in Bogota cirka 2074, for instance.
That's a great breakdown. Do I understand correctly that Tacoma would be a B zone?
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According to Seattle 2072 (which is where I got most of my location information), Tacoma is mostly industrial and blue-collar residential, so B is probably appropriate. However, it should be noted that Tacoma also houses the offices of Shiawase which are obviously likely to be much higher on the security level scale, as well as some rougher parts of town, so depending on neighbourhood it could be anywhere from AAA to C.
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Anarkitty I know it's popular to think of Texas as the mother of all gun nations, but if you walked into a Dallas 7-11 with two Desert Eagle handguns on your hip and a revolver in your belt, you'd more likely than not be arrested.
Take a look at Texas Penal Code 46.02 if you don't believe me.
http://www.statutes.legis.state.tx.us/Docs/PE/htm/PE.46.htm
I stand corrected. Being a Seattleite, rather than a Texan, I admit my view was primarily unformed by popular media portrayals of the Lone Star state. Since it was hypothetical anyway, I have edited my original post.
Point is: if you're going to open carry at any time, be prepared to be hassled by the cops. Same applies to Shadowrun as far as I'm concerned.
Carry that legal AR on your back in downtown Seattle, but you better hope your SIN checks out all nice and shiny like. And if you're not broadcasting a (seemingly) valid SIN with (seemingly) valid licenses that match the broadcasting RFID tags on said weapon, your life is about to become somewhat of a mess...
You could probably get away with carrying a Remington 950 sport rifle in rural parts of Snohomish all day every day, on the other hand...
But that's just my view on the setting. I'm fairly agreed with baronspam on his assessment of lifestyle, though I would break it down by security Z through AAA zones in a somewhat similar fashion, as per the revised HTR Response Team table on page 356.
Z-zone (Glow City, Puyallup, or the majority of the Redmond Barrens): Anything goes. But don't look too tough or well armed, or someone's gonna want to steal your shit for themselves...
C-zone (Puyallup City, or Touristville, Redmond): Same as above as the cops only come rolling in if you cause wanton destruction, so exercise minimum caution
B-zone (most of the Auburn (industrial) or Renton (low to mid-level housing) districts): Carrying a concealed weapon is unlikely to get you into trouble, but full body armor and assault rifles with grenade launchers are no longer accepted. Basically, make sure you have licenses for restricted firearms, and don't show off your forbidden ones at all
A-zone (high-end housing in almost all Seattle districts, outskirts of downtown): Carrying openly is no longer an option if you want to remain anonymous. Carry a valid SIN and openly broadcast any concealed carry license for restricted firearms. The combat jacket might need to stay at home depending on the neighbourhood
AA-zone (most of the Bellevue district not owned by the megas, business districts of downtown): Make sure your SIN is of good quality, and your licenses even more so. Dress professionally, meaning jeans and an armored vest is likely to attract attention
AAA-zone (most of central downtown Seattle, and best areas of Bellevue): Business/fashion attire only, no obvious weapons, best SIN (and licenses, if you plan on concealing a weapon) money can buy
That's my view of parts of Seattle, at least. Your mileage may vary depending on location. Keep in mind that places like Neo-Tokyo allows you to carry a katana nearly everywhere, but includes a total ban on all firearms unless your police or military (or megacorporate security), whereas nobody is likely to bother you for open carrying an AR in Bogota cirka 2074, for instance.
I like your breakdown. One of the few exceptions in A+ zones is bodyguards.
The most effective way to get away with walking around in an armed group is to have good fake SINs and licenses, and put the face in the middle of the group with a nice suit. You might still attract some attention, but it gives an obvious explanation for why you are armed in an A+ zone and people are more likely to just dismiss you from their minds as "normal".
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I stand corrected. Being a Seattleite, rather than a Texan, I admit my view was primarily unformed by popular media portrayals of the Lone Star state. Since it was hypothetical anyway, I have edited my original post.
For the record, we don't wear cowboy hats either and we have no idea why you people seem to think we invented thick toast. Walker: Texas Ranger is a slightly less realistic depiction of Texas than Shadowrun is of Seattle. Dallas is basically Seattle except our space needle has a ball on top.
(http://www.lowfares.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/Dallas.jpg)
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I would seriously recommend finding a copy of Sprawl Sites and flipping directly to the Sprawl Law section if this topic interests you. It may be old enough that a Z zone is described as an "almost mythical region" that D or E zones sometimes devolve into, but the rest of it is quite detailed and comprehensive.
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For the record, we don't wear cowboy hats either...
You must not get out of Big D very often, LOL.
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For the record, we don't wear cowboy hats either...
You must not get out of Big D very often, LOL.
I spent about 8 years in Dallas and I've been living in Austin for a few years now. When I was a kid I lived in Longview, which is or at least was a small town. I have yet to see anyone dressed like they think they're in a western movie. The only cowboy hat I've seen was on one of my uncles at family reunions and he only got away with it because he owned a ranch in New Mexico and was as close as you can get to being an actual cowboy these days, though as far as I know he never had his wagon train attacked by "injuns". You're as likely to see a cowboy in Texas as you are a samurai in Japan or a viking in Iceland. Even our hicks are generally smart enough to figure out what century it is.
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Huh, we might know a few of the same people. I had several college friends from Longview, but I wouldn't describe it as a "country" town.
Anyway, Texas is a big state. When I was stationed outside of El Paso, I saw cowboy hats all the time. If you spent all of your time in east Texas and the cities, you probably didn't see them much.
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Anyway, Texas is a big state. When I was stationed outside of El Paso, I saw cowboy hats all the time. If you spent all of your time in east Texas and the cities, you probably didn't see them much.
This is my experience as well. 30 years in Houston, many of which were spent roaming around Texas. Cowboy hats only exist as fashion statements in Dallas, Houston, and Austin. They're actually part of the culture in west and north-central Texas.
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I've always been under the impression that cowboys hats and boots were primarily functional, or at least popular because of their functionality. I suppose that functionality is only really of use to people who still work outside on ranges/ranches or ride horses extensively, though.
Being from Seattle, I can say the biggest difference between Shadowrun Seattle and real Seattle is that the people are less passive-aggressive in SR. They're more aggressive-aggressive.
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I've always been under the impression that cowboys hats and boots were primarily functional, or at least popular because of their functionality. I suppose that functionality is only really of use to people who still work outside on ranges/ranches or ride horses extensively, though.
Being from Seattle, I can say the biggest difference between Shadowrun Seattle and real Seattle is that the people are less passive-aggressive in SR. They're more aggressive-aggressive.
Oh yes. I know the Northwestern passive-aggressiveness that you speak ;D
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In Missouri, there is an open carry law. Cities are allowed to overrule the law and create their own (Kansas City is a good example), but most of the state hasn't. That said, it is still rare to see people open carrying. Most people, including law enforcement officers, don't understand, or even know of, the law. Carrying a gun openly is almost a certain to get the police called on you and be questioned, even though it is perfectly legal. I've actually known people that have had their firearms illegally confiscated and brought up on charges in the state. They have to sue for their property back even though they never broke any laws.
So, it doesn't really matter what the law says. What matters is perception and what the questioning officers (there will be some, there are always some) think the law says. Unarmed people are always scared of armed people. That's why open carry states have more people concealed carry still than open carriers.
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generally, the higher up the social ladder of SR, the LESS they put up with weapon, regardless of the law...
In the heart of a "AAA" Zone and you have a light pistol, no identifiable destination, AND barely look like you belong there?? expect to be the object of a survailance drone for a long while....
Now, imagine how fast they are going to be on you for a machine pistol? How are you going to explain that you need a machine pistol with your ID, and that you belong in that zone at that time of day?
The rich pay big money to make sure they are safe, and that usually means they want only those "authorized" to have guns, to, you know, actually have them here. (IE: security and police)
In the heart of a "C" Zone and you have a barely passible ID, no licence, a heavy pistol under your jacket AND the KE officer saw it? He might make an attempt to question you, he might decide that now is a good time for coffee... He's might throw down on you.
Here, a gun might be the second thing you grab before you leave to get groceries! (right behind your armored jacket). Sure, you may not need every time, but you sure feel safer with it.
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Reaver
Remember you can hide weapons on you, and turn off the wireless feature of the firearm. Essentially, with a little bit of concealment, you can easily walk around AAA zones with a concealed light pistol. That is, until you hit a MAD or millimeter wave scanner ;)
My point; the SR world has a lot of ambiguity in terms of what you can and cannot do. Be smart about it, dress to fit in (whether that means masquerading as a gardener or security guard, or one of the rich, fortunate ones is up to you), and conceal your weapons, and chances are you'll be good. Most GMs I've played under seem to value prep work.