Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => General Discussion => Topic started by: SuperPheemy on <09-04-10/1405:28>
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My runners are starting to touch upon places and subjects where the big and powerful Magi, Technomancers, and Shamans play. So, by game definition how powerful is powerful? I know that the average SINful wage-slave thinks any Magic is scary and powerful. But what do the Shadows think? When do we go from "Talented" to "STAY THE FRAK AWAY YOU DREKHEAD!"?
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I found the first time my players kinda pooped themselves was the Toxic tradition guy with 9 magic and 4 initations. Of course being that he just had corrupted a layline to 1 point of his own tradtion probably helped. I'm sure that with the combo of meta magics I used that my players likely would ahve still crapped themselves at a lower magic rating. Its all in the presentation ::)
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You know, watching that fight, I was waiting for the Shoggoth's to come out, such a disappointment.. :D
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Well, consider that I saw my players geek a pair of Troll Initiate Security Mages(2 grades of Initiation, 8 magic) with an
assault cannon.....Um....it gets really hard to know....Unfortunately, in my experience, my players are likely to
just go "You bastard" and then bring out the "we've been carrying these for when the defecation hits the
rotary oscillator" weapons....and blow up half the building...
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Well when the force 6 inhabitation earth spirit "gugs" came out I added a little fun. The players had to make composure 4 rolls to look at them. That + immunity to normal weapons did cause a few problems for a few heartbeats. The force 10 Ligore showed, all bets were off. Fun times were had!
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Ahhhhh, isn't it submersion instead of sublimation for techno's? Is that what you're asking about ???
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Yes, it is submersion.
Sublimation would be...unpleasant.
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It is of course possible to have a character with no submersions or Initiations and still be thought of as wholey crap RUN! and don't forget the negitive 4 to 5 point cyberzombie magic and hackers aren't the only ones who can do wow so can tech.
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In my exp. it's not as much how much power you have as how you use the power you do have. I've seen a Dragon (not a Great) taken down with a lucky grenade. I've also seen a Grade 1 blood mage (magic 7) take down a whole team of semi-prime runners. It's all about applying the correct amount of force at the correct time. That said I almost drekked when we had to go up against a Grade 6 wasp shaman in her own lair :o A good time was NOT had by all. (characters anyway we players had a blast getting stomped :D )
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Player skill is a big factor that an of course getting the die god to be kind to you lol
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It is of course possible to have a character with no submersions or Initiations and still be thought of as wholey crap RUN! and don't forget the negitive 4 to 5 point cyberzombie magic and hackers aren't the only ones who can do wow so can tech.
I actually did that once with a Magic 1 magician...creative use of AR and high explosives combined with magical gestures...confused the hell out of the party, and they
ran like hell!
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It is of course possible to have a character with no submersions or Initiations and still be thought of as wholey crap RUN! and don't forget the negitive 4 to 5 point cyberzombie magic and hackers aren't the only ones who can do wow so can tech.
I actually did that once with a Magic 1 magician...creative use of AR and high explosives combined with magical gestures...confused the hell out of the party, and they
ran like hell!
You pulled a Raistlin on them! ;D
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I have to agree with some of the sentiment here. It is in the presentation sheer numbers can pose an epic challenge, explosives in sufficient quantities, one high power spirit, full auto from a hvy weapon etc.
I've rated my home games in 4 grades 1-3(Novice)/ 4-6(Vet)/ 7-9(Prime)/10-12(Welcome to Z-O) I use this for Spirit force,program maxes,initiate grades etc.
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That looks like a good system
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Player skill is a big factor that an of course getting the die god to be kind to you lol
One day my runners had to fight agaisnt a Toxic shaman with 10 Magic and 5 initiation, he was named Chernobyl and he was pretty well prepared...but the Dice Gods were not with me, and I critical glitched on his most powerful spell, and well, as you can imagine, they beat the crap out of what was remained of him *sigh* :-\
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Player skill is a big factor that an of course getting the die god to be kind to you lol
One day my runners had to fight agaisnt a Toxic shaman with 10 Magic and 5 initiation, he was named Chernobyl and he was pretty well prepared...but the Dice Gods were not with me, and I critical glitched on his most powerful spell, and well, as you can imagine, they beat the crap out of what was remained of him *sigh* :-\
Cautiously waits for the obligatory pun...
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Player skill is a big factor that an of course getting the die god to be kind to you lol
One day my runners had to fight agaisnt a Toxic shaman with 10 Magic and 5 initiation, he was named Chernobyl and he was pretty well prepared...but the Dice Gods were not with me, and I critical glitched on his most powerful spell, and well, as you can imagine, they beat the crap out of what was remained of him *sigh* :-\
Cautiously waits for the obligatory pun...
...they nuked him :P
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<buzzzzz>
Sorry, we were looking for "Meltdown".
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Well at least i tried ;D
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Ok fastjack we get that your fast but hey give others a chance to answer lol.
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Well for my part, I'd consider anything with more than 6 in Magic/Resonance to be pretty powerful compared to the general level of mages/technomancer. But like some of you said, it's all in the presentation... And in the preparation.
Mages are a pretty nasty bunch, but I think it's best to let the players imagine what they could do rather than showing them what they can. Think about it : if you don't know what to expect, a mage could pretty well use his magic to augment his combat capabilities and level your team with some well-placed combat spells, or be possessed by a powerful spirit, laughing at your pathetic efforts to bring it down. Or it could trick you with some nasty illusions. Or he could have an army of spirits at the ready, waiting for you to step into his trap. Or he could take control of one of your teammates. Or he could be right here, invisible to your senses. Or... Well you get the point.
Actually, as long as magic entities are concerned, I think my players worst fear was when they were chasing someone they thought murdured one of their friends. They knew he was tough, but they didn't know he was compelled to kill due to a blood spirit possessing him. As usual, the Big Bad Troll of the team (highly resilient, and really lethal in close combat) charged... And the guy just threw him out the window, apparently effortlessly. The blood spirit was powerful (rating 6), but wasnt invicible Seeing how the guy took out the most badass character, the others were... well very cautious afterwards.
Concerning Technomancers, I think Submersion is actually more important than Initiation is for mages. Some submersions allow you to do things that are otherwise impossible. But their true strength are sprites, as all their special powers are absolutely unique to them. I haven't had the occasion to confront my players with a strong technomancer (there is one in my actual campaign, but he is more of a chessmaster than a direct opposing force), but I think I'd use someone with Resonance 6-8 with 3-5 submersions, and probably some sprites for fun. Haven't really thought about it, though...