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Do You Ever Act As Both Player And GM?

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Mystic

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« Reply #60 on: <04-18-11/1950:26> »
To answer the origional question: no, not really. I have never played a traditional charcter while GMing but I have done the long term NPC that stays with the group or had NPCs that come and go or been reoccurring. Some NPCs have started out at the same "level" as the PCs and advance as they do, but first pick of any good stuff usually go to the PCs. I do find it is advantageous to have such NPCs around, especially if a guest player or two show up so they can jump right in if they don't want to create a character yet. That and it's nice if all they do is roll dice for me.

 ;)

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usefulidiot

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« Reply #61 on: <07-17-11/0056:22> »
I have played as a gmpc for quite some time now in our group since the majority of the time it is a very small group. We have also rotated the role of the gmpc once in while. I will run the campaigns but when the others "guest spot" gmpc they will usually do one shot runs. Sometimes it can be tough playing the role of a gmpc but as stated in some of the other post, there is a fine line to walk and you have to be sure not to favor your character. You have to be sure your doing things that are based on character knowledge and not what you really know. I tend to play roles that allow the others to be the leaders and decision makers of the group and I just follow the lead of the group with minimal "character imput". Actually the characters I have played have been injured and near death much more then the others due to unavoidable circumstances, but being the gm I knew what the real potential dangers were awaiting me. Once again though there is that fine line of gm knowledge and character knowledge. I don't see anything wrong with it so long as you always play fair.

Medicineman

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« Reply #62 on: <07-17-11/0153:21> »
This question's been rolling around in what passes for my brain for some time now.  How many of you GMs play a PC at the same time you're running the game?
Sometimes ,as a Player ,I help the GM with the Rules/Decisions or infuse the Game with Player empowerment.(creating NPCs and Places)
so  sometimes  its the other way round (for Me)

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baronspam

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« Reply #63 on: <07-17-11/1021:07> »
I haven't done this in Shandowrun in particular, but I have done it in other games when we were short on players.  I find it works best if you can pick a "back rank", support style character.  I had a long running 4th ed dnd campaign once in which I ran a laser cleric as a gmpc.  There were only two PCs (small group, and even three characters is pushing it in 4th ed, 4 or 5 works better) and they didn't have a healer.  Key points are to let the PCs do most of the talking, and make the decisions.  For shadowrun, I think running the Hacker/Technomancer this way would be a good choice (and maybe making the hacking rules abstract or even just deciding on results as the plot allows) or rigger/drone character who stays in the vehicle, runs overwatch, and sends a couple of dobermans along if heavy fighting is anticipated.

Mystic

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« Reply #64 on: <07-20-11/0902:13> »
Before 4e, I used to always NPC deckers because 1) no one wanted to play them because 2) running the matrix nine times out of ten brought the game to a screeching hault. The common joke was "matrix time, lets go have a smoke/get food/get out the cards/etc"

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SirDelta

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« Reply #65 on: <07-23-11/0153:06> »
I do.  Very much so.  I love making characters and playing them.
Although, what we do is have three people doing GM duties.  Our Face describes locations, I do NPC characters, and our mage describes the results of rolls.  It works pretty well, at least as good as when we had one GM.

DeciusRagnos

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« Reply #66 on: <07-24-11/0058:39> »
I'm playing a game right now where we have a 3 man team and I'm the muscle.  Leaving the complicated stuff to the Players gives them all the spotlight and you provide the nessicary gunpower.  I prefer to sport off as a tank or a brute force type.
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Shadowjack

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« Reply #67 on: <07-24-11/0251:30> »
My irl group always has the gm act as a character as well. It's a true test of your rp skills and it is surprisingly fun. We found that it works best if the gm plays more of a follower than a leader because it feels odd making all  the big decisions and having access to all the information on the campaign. But as a follower, you can usually voice reasonable opinions without metagaming. It also gives the gm a lot more to look forward to and really keeps our campaigns running strong.
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JoeNapalm

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« Reply #68 on: <07-24-11/0648:07> »

There is no such thing as a "GMPC".

There are PCs and NPCs.  A GM is not the same thing as a player - any character that they are running is, by definition, an NPC.

An NPC that is also a party member is fine, as long as the GM uses them as an NPC. The moment the GM starts thinking of that character as being "their PC" you have a problem. You should be telling the story - you get an infinite number of characters to play as GM, and the trade off is that the players are the protagonists...not the GM.

I have run party member NPCs in most of my games. Henchmen, hirelings, filling roles no one wanted to play - they are a great way to influence the story without being heavy handed, or to introduce new plot elements, out even just to illicit emotion...let the party get attached, them kill em - instant fear, anger, whatever you are after.

But they aren't PCs. Thinking of them as such is a bad idea. The GM should be the ultimate and neutral arbiter...they are NOT players.

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Onion Man

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« Reply #69 on: <07-24-11/1434:07> »

There is no such thing as a "GMPC".

There are PCs and NPCs.  A GM is not the same thing as a player - any character that they are running is, by definition, an NPC.

An NPC that is also a party member is fine, as long as the GM uses them as an NPC. The moment the GM starts thinking of that character as being "their PC" you have a problem. You should be telling the story - you get an infinite number of characters to play as GM, and the trade off is that the players are the protagonists...not the GM.


Spot on.

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Charybdis

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« Reply #70 on: <07-24-11/2021:39> »

There is no such thing as a "GMPC".

There are PCs and NPCs.  A GM is not the same thing as a player - any character that they are running is, by definition, an NPC.

An NPC that is also a party member is fine, as long as the GM uses them as an NPC. The moment the GM starts thinking of that character as being "their PC" you have a problem. You should be telling the story - you get an infinite number of characters to play as GM, and the trade off is that the players are the protagonists...not the GM.

GMPC's do exist. They may be a subset of NPC, but they are definitely in a category of their own.

If a GM has taken the time to create an NPC with the same level of CharGen detail as a player, and has inserted that character into the game with the same rights as all other PC's at the table, then that is a GMPC.

There are reasons this can work, and especially under a rotating GM scenario, it's quite reasonable.
Also, if there is a massive gap in the player skills, then a permanent GMPC fixture may be warrnated (although IMHO a normal NPC is sufficient for this, but different strokes for different folks...)

The problems occur if at any stage the GM believed to be favouring the GMPC. When that happens, it's game over, no-one's having fun anymore.

Therefore, it's a risk vs reward scenario. Is having the GMPC at the table, worth the risk of spoiling everyone's fun for what may be just a misunderstanding in the end? Normally, the answer is Hell no, not worth it.
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baronspam

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« Reply #71 on: <07-24-11/2220:00> »

There is no such thing as a "GMPC".

There are PCs and NPCs.  A GM is not the same thing as a player - any character that they are running is, by definition, an NPC.

An NPC that is also a party member is fine, as long as the GM uses them as an NPC. The moment the GM starts thinking of that character as being "their PC" you have a problem. You should be telling the story - you get an infinite number of characters to play as GM, and the trade off is that the players are the protagonists...not the GM.

GMPC's do exist. They may be a subset of NPC, but they are definitely in a category of their own.

If a GM has taken the time to create an NPC with the same level of CharGen detail as a player, and has inserted that character into the game with the same rights as all other PC's at the table, then that is a GMPC.

There are reasons this can work, and especially under a rotating GM scenario, it's quite reasonable.
Also, if there is a massive gap in the player skills, then a permanent GMPC fixture may be warrnated (although IMHO a normal NPC is sufficient for this, but different strokes for different folks...)

The problems occur if at any stage the GM believed to be favouring the GMPC. When that happens, it's game over, no-one's having fun anymore.

Therefore, it's a risk vs reward scenario. Is having the GMPC at the table, worth the risk of spoiling everyone's fun for what may be just a misunderstanding in the end? Normally, the answer is Hell no, not worth it.

I agree with this.  The spoiler to the "there is not such thing as a GMPC" theory is a game with a rotating/shared gm duties.  I also agree that is is CRITICAL not to give your "character" if you are the gm any special preferance, or allow them to act on any knowledge that the character would not reasonably have.  Its a tough mental balancing act.  In some ways, you have to less attached to the character than you would be if would be as a player.  You know as a GM that the west door is a really, really bad idea, but if the character doesn't know, you can't let him say anything.

Shadowjack

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« Reply #72 on: <07-25-11/0308:30> »
My irl rp group is very experienced and we always have the gm control a character they consider their own and try to avoid all metagaming. It absolutely can be done and in my opinion it is much more fun for the gm because they have their own character that can get a large part of the pc experience and also enjoy the  anticipation of coming events just as any other gm can. I don't see why you would declare that gmpc's don't exist. You say that all characters controlled by the gm by definition are npc but that is not true if the gm considers one of the characters to be "his" character. I will say this though, playing a gmpc takes practice and if done poorly it could be quite problematic :P
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usefulidiot

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« Reply #73 on: <07-26-11/2103:10> »
One other way we prevent from metagaming when having a rotating GM role; when a GM has a character he is playing that is a character that will need to advance along with the other PCs, instead of the GM deciding how much karma his character will recieve at the end of a run we have the other people in the group unanimously decide how much that character will recieve. In fact in our group when I have been the GM and played a character at the same time the other members of my group have often said I was being to harsh to my own characters. So once again if done carefully I think a GM can play a character at the same time with out it becoming a issue. Majority of the time our group works together on the game mechanic duties and leaves the story telling strictly to the GM.

JoeNapalm

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« Reply #74 on: <07-27-11/0624:26> »

The only real rule is that you and your group have fun.  :D 

That said...Simply thinking of an NPC as "your PC" is showing a preference toward it.

The only difference between a "GMPC" and an NPC is that.

The GM is not a player. All of his characters are NPCs...or, if you prefer, all NPCs are his characters. Deciding that one is "yours" is saying that one NPC is special.

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