NEWS

It Must be stated

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FastJack

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« Reply #60 on: <09-08-10/1447:10> »
  Wow I had no idea this was such a heated topic.

I typed this out last night before bed, checking it now an hour before lunch, 4 pages of responses..

Regardless of how you feel about this topic, it does seem clear it should be addressed.  I mean the % of SR players that are even on these forums at this point has to be under 1%.

 Whomever quoted a Wikii about that indicated that the term clip was commonplace, please remember that Wikii's are created and maintained by the public, not industry experts... the same uneducated public that commonly refers to magazines as clips.. I don't think anyone who works with firearms, or has formally trained with them ever makes this mistake.

 There are 2 firearms that come to mind as clip using, one is an SKS with a non removable magazine (its not internal, its held on with a screw) it is loaded by pressing a rounds off a clip down the top of the riffle, the empty clip drops out the bottom.  and the M1 Garand you push down on the back of the clip and it holds them down inside the riffle on the clip, as the rounds are shot the clip slowly climbs out of the riffle until it is launched clear after the last round.. There is no way to unload these weapons without ejecting all the rounds in some fashion.  BTW both these firearms predate 1947, nothing comes to mind as a military used riffle newer then 1947 that uses a clip.

There is a type of clip called a moon clip, that is used for a specific revolver, but it is exactly a clip, and is used to speed load the gun..

My point is still true, to people who spend a lot of time with firearms, the term clip is ignorant.  There is no other viewpoint, especially if they have taken to time to explain the difference to the new people and they still call mags, clips..

To the person that pointed out that magazine is 2x as long as clip, I offer that Mag is 25% shorter than clip and perfectly acceptable in all cases

In game mechanics if they called Magazines (M), and internal Magazines (IM) no one would be confused..Then when I buy clips for my firearms, it would be to load them into my (IM), or to speed load them into my Mags..

So everyone is happy, and you stop propagating ignorance to a new generation of gamers.
And I think the main point I was making was that it's not knowledge that's needed. So they call it clip/magazine/bullet box? Some (like yourself) will correct them, and either they will take that knowledge and change or not, since it just a game.

Now, if I was on the firing range with my brother-in-law and his fellow cops, you can bet for damn sure I'm going to use the right terminology. Because in that situation, it truly will make a difference.

Caine Hazen

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« Reply #61 on: <09-08-10/1515:19> »
Huh... when I'm on the firing range I always shout "throw me a clip" just to watch all the guys give me that dirty look...  But maybe that's just how I am. ;D
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Critias

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« Reply #62 on: <09-08-10/1527:34> »
Whether it's what's "right" or not (and believe me, I know that it is), it's not necessarily worth getting worked up about, and it's certainly not worth taking as some sort of insult, or slap in the face.  

Given how prevalent the use of "clips" is in modern society -- I've heard it used not only at my local firing range, not only on a firing range where I was punching paper with some local SWAT guys, not only in the Army, but on some of the recent info-tainment gun/weapon shows like Deadliest Warrior and Future Weapons and stuff -- it's perfectly possible that by the time the Shadowrun universe rolls around, clip is the correct term.

Forty, fifty, sixty years from now, it could totally happen.  Just tell yourself that a clip is a magazine in the SR-verse, and go about enjoying the game.  No need to get excited.
« Last Edit: <09-08-10/1542:06> by Critias »

Dead Monky

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« Reply #63 on: <09-08-10/1529:13> »
Indeed.  My brother gets all pissy about the distinction between a "clip" and a "magazine."  I call them all "bullet holdey-things" just to irritate him.

FastJack

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« Reply #64 on: <09-08-10/1616:33> »
Indeed.  My brother gets all pissy about the distinction between a "clip" and a "magazine."  I call them all "bullet holdey-things" just to irritate him.
Wait. You carry a gun? Is that in case you (god forbid) run out of grenades?

Dead Monky

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« Reply #65 on: <09-08-10/1617:42> »
Quote
Wait. You carry a gun? Is that in case you (god forbid) run out of grenades?
It's just a little one, don't worry.

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« Reply #66 on: <09-08-10/1634:27> »
Indeed.  My brother gets all pissy about the distinction between a "clip" and a "magazine."  I call them all "bullet holdey-things" just to irritate him.
Wait. You carry a gun? Is that in case you (god forbid) run out of grenades?
It's so he has something to check in at the ammo desk. Otherwise they might think he's a mage.

Dead Monky

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« Reply #67 on: <09-08-10/1647:38> »
Quote
It's so he has something to check in at the ammo desk. Otherwise they might think he's a mage.
Who says I'm not?   ;D

Casazil

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« Reply #68 on: <09-08-10/1818:31> »
Sigh someone always wants to bring reality into my fantasy/futureistic game .........

GO AWAY!! :P  :P :P :P :P ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

So ok that said yes in theory it's a magazine so what like I said it's a game go with it.
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Turtletron

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« Reply #69 on: <09-08-10/1847:05> »
Quote
It's so he has something to check in at the ammo desk. Otherwise they might think he's a mage.
Who says I'm not?   ;D

Nice, throw a grenade at your enemies and than create a physical barrier around them to imprison them in the explosion area 8).
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Bisharian

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« Reply #70 on: <09-08-10/1856:51> »
Sigh someone always wants to bring reality into my fantasy/futureistic game .........

GO AWAY!! :P  :P :P :P :P ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

So ok that said yes in theory it's a magazine so what like I said it's a game go with it.
Bringing reality to fantasy is the easiest way to become apart of that fantasy, if there are at least a few similarities it is MUCH more easy for the brain to accept, thus allowing more pleasure from said fantasy. If there is anything to remind the player that it is just a fantasy, it can become very frustrating. If we precieve our reality is false, we struggle to live. Perception is reality...

Bisharian

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« Reply #71 on: <09-08-10/1904:32> »
Btw, I wonder, if magic ever became a reality, how much people should complain that SR gets it wrong? Let that blow your mind! Weee-woo, Ker-plow!

Dead Monky

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« Reply #72 on: <09-08-10/2025:53> »
Quote
Nice, throw a grenade at your enemies and than create a physical barrier around them to imprison them in the explosion area  8)
Nice.  Now I'm going to have to try that.

Jonny Reload

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« Reply #73 on: <09-08-10/2042:48> »
Y'know for a issue that's 'not that big a deal', 31 replies in 7 hours is pretty impressive.

Two things (as someone that has seen many strange behaviors/ideas from working in corporate America and also with marketing reps):

1)  You fail to take into account that the average gamer has no idea of the difference between a magazine or a clip. Or cares that there's a difference. Neither terms are used in great degree, even in movies where guns are prevalent. Most of the time, they simply say "I'm out!" when talking ammo. (If they are shooting 15 rounds without loading a revolver.)

2)  Words cost money. Magazine is twice the length of clip. Might not seem like a lot, but when you're dealing with printed materials, every penny counts. And if you can shorten a book by 2-4 pages by misusing a term that everyone thinks is similar to the correct term, chances are you're going to go with the shorter term. And hope that the minority of your customers that would recognize the difference are forgiving enough to not make a big deal out of it.

I'm so glad we've now found the official representative for deciding on if things are important or not and judge of who "average gamers" are  ::) I mean if you didn't announce yourself, my self identity would be lost in the ether! Thank you so much!
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Kontact

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« Reply #74 on: <09-08-10/2057:42> »
Regardless of any other meaning, "clip" is street slang for a detachable box magazine.

Process this information and accept it.  The grieving process has gone on for too long now.


If you want to get huffy over the use of street slang on the internet or in rule books, feel free.  Just be aware, that is what you are doing.
Like if you were all in a tizzy because people were saying "cop" instead of "police officer," it's really not important from a linguistics standpoint.