[Maskerade]

Wearing heavy armor doesn't make you harder to knock over.

Might actually make it easier to knock him over, what with being so top-heavy.

[PeterSmith]

IIRC the only thing that makes it easier to knock somebody over in armor is adding gel packs. They remove one die from the pool for knockdown checks.

[RHat]

IIRC the only thing that makes it easier to knock somebody over in armor is adding gel packs. They remove one die from the pool for knockdown checks.

However, in cases of overmod, the GM does get to start being creative.

[Mantis]

As a note, you can't wear anything else with Military armour as per pg 50 of Arsenal. Last line of the last paragraph on that armour before describing types. So you can't suit up in form-fitting under this stuff.

[RHat]

As a note, you can't wear anything else with Military armour as per pg 50 of Arsenal. Last line of the last paragraph on that armour before describing types. So you can't suit up in form-fitting under this stuff.

Or, for that matter, get the bonus from a shield.

[PeterSmith]

Or, for that matter, get the bonus from a shield.

Why not? Shields and helmets aren't considered armors in and of themselves, rather they're modifiers to the existing armor.

[RHat]

Or, for that matter, get the bonus from a shield.

Why not? Shields and helmets aren't considered armors in and of themselves, rather they're modifiers to the existing armor.

Hm.  Suppose the text allows for it, but I'd argue that RAI is pretty clearly that Milspec Armour stacks with nothing.  And, if you read it that way, you'd have to allow SecureTech PPP to stack with it as well.

[mtfeeney = Baron]

Did he say the military suits?  I thought he said he was modding a full suit, as in the suit of armor named full suit from sr4a.  It has no such limitation about other armors.

[RHat]

Did he say the military suits?  I thought he said he was modding a full suit, as in the suit of armor named full suit from sr4a.  It has no such limitation about other armors.

We started assuming milspec along the way for capacity and encumbrance purposes.

[mtfeeney = Baron]

The full suit from sr4a has a capacity rating, why are we assuming something else?

[RHat]

Milspec armour has higher capacity and its encumbrance is measured at Body*3.

[mtfeeney = Baron]

Hmm, so the full suit has 12/10 armor, and you can add PPP and FFBA.  It has 8 capacity and 7 in the helmet.  Heavy Milspec gives 18/16, but won't stack with anything else.  It has a whopping 20 capacity, and the helmet seems to come with most stuff and can be upgraded with the rest without any listed limitation.

In the armor department, the full suit could get up to 20/18, requiring a body of 8 or 9(I forget which way you round).  The milspec heavy is 18/16 when paired with the required helmet, and it only requires 6 body.

For upgrades, the FS/PPP/FFBA lets you take 18 ranks of mods plus 8 capacity in the armor itself and 7 in the helmet.  The milspec heavy gives a flat 20, but unlimited for the helmet.

The FS/PPP/FFBA costs 9600, while the milspec heavy costs between 30,000 and 48,500 nuyen(depends on what rating you want in the included commlink).

The full armor suit gives you slightly more armor for a significantly cheaper price(at least 20k cheaper) and much lower availability(plus it's not Forbidden, just Restricted).  It gives somewhat less total upgradeability(maybe...  on the other hand, mods that don't have a rating just count as 1, which is cheaper than actually using capacity), but requires a higher body attribute.

I would say they both have their uses.

[PeterSmith]

Hm.  Suppose the text allows for it, but I'd argue that RAI is pretty clearly that Milspec Armour stacks with nothing.  And, if you read it that way, you'd have to allow SecureTech PPP to stack with it as well.

If nothing stacks with Milspec, then why do they include a rather expensive helmet on the chart? It's not like they said the armors are 14/12, 16/14, and 18/16 and that includes the helmet. The chart gives the helmet as a line item. As for SecureTech, I'd allow it but for fluff purposes I'd limit characters to using the external non-sports version. Keep in mind you're going to need a BOD score of 6 to don the Heavy Military Armor and helmet to avoid taking Encumbrance penalties (assuming no other modifications have been made). Start adding the SecureTech and that number will go up.

[mtfeeney = Baron]

Because the helmet is an integral piece of the suit, but the format for helmets was set before they made Arsenal? The helmet is part of the milspec suit, and the suit was designed to allow use of the military helmet specifically.  It says that no other armor can be worn with it.  PPP is armor.  FFBA is armor.  Shields are armor, but you don't wear them.  Does that mean you could use a shield with this?  I can't see why not, unless there's something about the gloves that make holding a handle impossible.

 If you allow the PPP, why limit it to the external stuff?  It's a silly mental image.  The MilSpec armor looks like what the Master Chief wears in Halo.  Can you picture him slipping pads over his armor?

[Falconer]

The reason the milspec says not to stack with other armors I think is pretty mechanical.

Milspec + helmet has special rules for encumbering... body x3.  Once you start tossing normally encumbering kit into the mix the rules have no way to handle it.   Yes you can quickly make some up, but there are none provided in the rulebooks themselves.


Adding other items on top of that... especially things like PPP has no way to handle the encumbering mechanically.


I think the idea of tossing PPP on top of full mil-spec is kind of silly really.   The armor is already practically a full carapace 'stormtrooper' armor.   PPP isn't going to help much if at all... and runs afoul of the calculating encumbrance rules at that point.

That said I wish the rules did handle shields better...   Shields are already auto-encumbering (-1 dice to all physical actions)... and I tend to see shields more as auto-encumbering bulky defensive weapons than as an armor accessory.  And properly employed you'll actually attack with the shield as a second weapon while using it to parry blows.  Though obviously the rules don't treat it as such.