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Unarmed Combat/Martial Arts

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Doc Chaos

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« Reply #15 on: <09-08-10/0957:40> »
Call it "qi", call it magic, call it what you will - adepts are supposed to be the advanced martial artists of the SR world.
I realize that and even accept that, but the Adept is still just a Vanilla artist. Is the Adept a Mantis Style or a Shotakan Master? There is a difference in how they would attack. It's a distiction I would like to have for my Characters. There is a wide veriety of firearms, ror simplicity/game balance we could  just have Pistol, Rifle, Assault Rifle, & Heavy Weapon. To me that is the arguement vs having more choices for MAs.

True, but as I said: 99% (imaginary figure) of Sam players love gun variety. 1% knows a lot about guns and would like more details in ranged combat (caliber for example).
99% of MA/Adept players love to be able to kill people and smash drones with their bare hands. 1% cares about HOW they accomplish that.
Its a no no-brainer to see where the Devs had to invest the limited time they had to build a system for this. And since the ratio probably wont change, I don't think there is a big chance of the stuff you like being implemented as a sourcebook add-on.
On the other hand, nobody will hold you back from creating this as a house rule! There might also be other MA enthusiasts who would like to help you create this.
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Mooncrow

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« Reply #16 on: <09-08-10/0959:15> »
Call it "qi", call it magic, call it what you will - adepts are supposed to be the advanced martial artists of the SR world.
I realize that and even accept that, but the Adept is still just a Vanilla artist. Is the Adept a Mantis Style or a Shotakan Master? There is a difference in how they would attack. It's a distiction I would like to have for my Characters. There is a wide veriety of firearms, ror simplicity/game balance we could  just have Pistol, Rifle, Assault Rifle, & Heavy Weapon. To me that is the arguement vs having more choices for MAs.

While I agree that it wouldn't hurt for more fluff to be available, they did a decent job of diversifying the styles in a relatively small space.  Most adepts I know take at least one Martial Arts style (most combat characters in general, actually).  Certainly there are enough examples for GMs to write up their own forms if people want to play a specific style that's not listed.  

If they put out a book that had a ton of martial arts, would I buy it?  Absolutely.

Usda Beph

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« Reply #17 on: <09-08-10/1003:25> »
Call it "qi", call it magic, call it what you will - adepts are supposed to be the advanced martial artists of the SR world.
I realize that and even accept that, but the Adept is still just a Vanilla artist. Is the Adept a Mantis Style or a Shotakan Master? There is a difference in how they would attack. It's a distiction I would like to have for my Characters. There is a wide veriety of firearms, ror simplicity/game balance we could  just have Pistol, Rifle, Assault Rifle, & Heavy Weapon. To me that is the arguement vs having more choices for MAs.

While I agree that it wouldn't hurt for more fluff to be available, they did a decent job of diversifying the styles in a relatively small space.  Most adepts I know take at least one Martial Arts style (most combat characters in general, actually).  Certainly there are enough examples for GMs to write up their own forms if people want to play a specific style that's not listed.  

If they put out a book that had a ton of martial arts, would I buy it?  Absolutely.
Ok Yeah I should have said that myself. TPTB have laid a strong foundation for unarmed combat, I just want more. Thanks for putting it better than I did Mooncrow. ;D
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FastJack

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« Reply #18 on: <09-08-10/1018:20> »
For updated Martial Arts rules, check out the section in Arsenal. Using positive qualities, you can choose styles and manuevers, giving you benefits to Unarmed Combat.

The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #19 on: <09-08-10/1028:03> »
If anyone wants a personal example, I have one.

My character picked up the Boxing martial art, which it is, it just doesn't have fancy kicks.  (As a side note, I heard about a fighting monk over in China studying boxing because it developed very impressive hand speed.)  He picked up the Boxing quality +1 DV and two maneuvers: Full Offense and Finishing Move.  Full Offense adds 2 dice to the attack roll, but you can't defend until your next action.  Finishing Move allows you to make a second, immediate close combat attack if you connect with your target (do not need to damage it) at the cost of your next action.

My character combo'd these two together to take down another sammie.  That, combined with the set of shock gloves he was wearing ensured that the target did NOT get back up.  The downside was that two of his three passes were taken up by the attack, and he could not defend himself until the third pass came around.  Still, since it took out his target, what did that matter?
There is no overkill.

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Usda Beph

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« Reply #20 on: <09-08-10/1034:56> »
For updated Martial Arts rules, check out the section in Arsenal. Using positive qualities, you can choose styles and manuevers, giving you benefits to Unarmed Combat.
To me this is more like a skill group than a quality.
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anotherJack

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« Reply #21 on: <09-08-10/1036:53> »
Note that the +1DV can be taken twice in boxing martial style, and you can stack up to +3DV with two martial arts.
Little bit of bone lacing + strength augmentation, you're a living Panther canon, and with multiple target option, you get an area of effect.
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The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #22 on: <09-08-10/1037:57> »
The qualities add something extra to the skill.  They don't produce a dice pool on their own.  They can negate penalties (such as -2 for secondary targets) or boost a specific type of attack (bonus to DV or bonus die for grappling).  Such a thing doesn't lend itself to a simple skill, and it keeps dice pools from getting freakishly out of hand.

QUICK EDIT:  While you may be able to hit as hard as a Panther Cannon (ouch), said cannon can do it from (literally) miles away.  Even if you sprint to a target to try to get a melee attack off, the target (assuming only one) will get several shots at you with an SMG or assault rifle.  Not cool.
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."

Usda Beph

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« Reply #23 on: <09-08-10/1049:20> »
The qualities add something extra to the skill.  They don't produce a dice pool on their own.  They can negate penalties (such as -2 for secondary targets) or boost a specific type of attack (bonus to DV or bonus die for grappling).  Such a thing doesn't lend itself to a simple skill, and it keeps dice pools from getting freakishly out of hand.

QUICK EDIT:  While you may be able to hit as hard as a Panther Cannon (ouch), said cannon can do it from (literally) miles away.  Even if you sprint to a target to try to get a melee attack off, the target (assuming only one) will get several shots at you with an SMG or assault rifle.  Not cool.
The problem I see with Qualities over skills is a Quality doesn't get better but with practice & training a skill does. And martail Arts are lots of training. So something like a MA do Stun damage till they have say 5 ranks in their art. and damage could increase something like (STR/2+Skill rank)S. Not quite as leathal as a Panther plus lots less range and no blast raduis.
« Last Edit: <09-08-10/1055:42> by Usda Beph »
Yeah, I'm A Minotaur! You Gotta Beef with that?
I'm a Minotaur not a bully!
I studied at the Rocky Mountain Culinary School.I specialized in Seafood.
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Mooncrow

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« Reply #24 on: <09-08-10/1051:06> »
The qualities add something extra to the skill.  They don't produce a dice pool on their own.  They can negate penalties (such as -2 for secondary targets) or boost a specific type of attack (bonus to DV or bonus die for grappling).  Such a thing doesn't lend itself to a simple skill, and it keeps dice pools from getting freakishly out of hand.

QUICK EDIT:  While you may be able to hit as hard as a Panther Cannon (ouch), said cannon can do it from (literally) miles away.  Even if you sprint to a target to try to get a melee attack off, the target (assuming only one) will get several shots at you with an SMG or assault rifle.  Not cool.
The problem I see with Qualities over skils is a Quality doesn't get better but with practice & training a skill does. And martail Arts are lots of training. So something like a MA do Stun damage till they have say 5 ranks in their art. and damage could increase something like (STR/2+Skill rank)S. Not quite as leathal as a Panther plus lots less range and no blast raduis.

Actually, Martial Arts are an exception to normal qualities in that they can be increased by karma by RAW.

anotherJack

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« Reply #25 on: <09-08-10/1052:48> »
@The Gun Nut

True ^^ and its much more hard to take a rotodrone down with unarmed style - didn't say you can't.
On the other hand, shooting from miles isn't very usefull in urban fight, where no line of sight lasts more than 50 meters, and there's no way security let you pass with that Panther thing in your pants.
To each weapon its own situation.

@Usda : there's "ranks" for the martial qualities, that allows you to take more and more advantages and maneuvers.
Me am french, me am not speaking good english, but me am trying to correct this.

FastJack

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« Reply #26 on: <09-08-10/1054:02> »
Well, the Martial Arts quality comes in 4 ranks, each cost 5 BP. With each rank, you can choose two manuevers, which cost 2 BP each. So, you can spend Karma to buy the qualities as you game, getting better as you continue on. And, as before, the Styles & Manuevers add to Unarmed Combat, DV, Dodge, Parry, etc.

Usda Beph

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« Reply #27 on: <09-08-10/1058:26> »
@The Gun Nut

True ^^ and its much more hard to take a rotodrone down with unarmed style - didn't say you can't.
On the other hand, shooting from miles isn't very usefull in urban fight, where no line of sight lasts more than 50 meters, and there's no way security let you pass with that Panther thing in your pants.
To each weapon its own situation.

@Usda : there's "ranks" for the martial qualities, that allows you to take more and more advantages and maneuvers.
I guess I need more time to delve into the tomes. Good thing The Doomed One left his books at my house ;D Thanks. There is lots I have to read up on and lots of books to find that knowledge in! :-[
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My Dad worked out of el Toro In New Mexico.

The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #28 on: <09-08-10/1101:00> »
Yes, and combining the martial arts with cyber/bioware ensures that you can deal out that nasty hit.  For example:

HUMAN:
Base STR: 5
Muscle Aug: +4
Total: 9 STR

Bone Density augmentation 4 allows base melee damage to be (STR/2)+3 L
=> 9/2 (round up) = 5 + 3 (bone density) = 8L

Combined with a potential +3 from MA qualities = 11L
There is a maneuver that allows one to attack multiple enemies (split dice pool) with a bonus (its not terribly expensive, karma-wise) and a MA quality that does this too => small AOE.

It can get pretty sick, pretty fast.
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."

Doc Chaos

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« Reply #29 on: <09-08-10/1104:48> »
And Adepts can get even nastier. Critical strike, elemental strike, combined with some maneuvers...
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