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Unarmed Combat/Martial Arts

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Usda Beph

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« on: <09-08-10/0835:20> »
Ok so I'm wondering, Why are the rules for Unarmed Combat training so disjointed? Unarmed combat to me should be all in one place per se. What I mean it should be its own section. So when taking lvls in Unarmed from the beginning players should have the options to pick their fighting style. It's not so much a specilization as a prefered style. At character gen all the styles should be available.

Not to mention I have several styles under my preverbial belt. I am trained in Tae Kwon Do/Chun Do Quan, Shorin Ryu Karate & Wing Chun Do. Runners should not have to "Specialize" in a specific style. I have techniques I have "mastered", if you will, at my level of training. I can even fight in each of the individual styles. I just think the unarmed skills need more definition. We have books that only cover Spells Weapons, Augmentations etc. but Fist fighting gets a page or three, and a few common weapons.

Take the Ninjitsu entry. There are many different foci to the art depending the Style learned. There are Weapon heavy Ninjas (which have their own sub specialists) and Stealth foci, lets not forget the bone breakers.

I realize that if a tome was dedacated to Unarmed combat it could get unweildly (I mean a 5 book set or more ::)) But I hope there is a book upcoming that will give love to us Pugelists! Not to mention I volenteer to help playtest! :-*
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Doc Chaos

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« Reply #1 on: <09-08-10/0839:16> »
Same reason Matrix rules make no real life sense, grenade rules are plain absurd and people have something called Essence - gaming balance.
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Usda Beph

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« Reply #2 on: <09-08-10/0843:32> »
Same reason Matrix rules make no real life sense, grenade rules are plain absurd and people have something called Essence - gaming balance.
Maybe. But it's like saying I'm using a rifle/pistol/grenade, and there being only one set of ranges, damage, area of effect for those weapons.How unbalancing can an unarmed fighting style get compared to a Panther XXL? ;D :D
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Doc Chaos

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« Reply #3 on: <09-08-10/0847:12> »
My guess is, since its a future setting and basically everyone (with the exception of people like yourself) will stick to guns or other forms of ranged combat, the Devs didn't bother to put much time into a part of the combat system that won't get used much.
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Mooncrow

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« Reply #4 on: <09-08-10/0848:12> »
Well, while the rules for Unarmed could be more complicated, I'm kind of glad they are not :p  In the SR system, unarmed combat is kind of a niche thing; it's handy on occasion, but it's inferior to modern weapons in general.  

There are exceptions of course, you can build a monster of a melee guy if that's what you set out to do, but you're going to be at a disadvantage because of how defense dice pools work.  

On the multiple martial arts thing, I don't see where you have to specialize in a specific style.  "Martial Arts" is a valid specialization of Unarmed, and you can pick up as many different Martial Arts styles as you want.

Or am I misunderstanding what you're saying?

anotherJack

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« Reply #5 on: <09-08-10/0849:49> »
Quote
How unbalancing can an unarmed fighting style get compared to a Panther XXL?
By the rules, you can do the same DV than a Panther XXL with bare hands, but you can't carry your panther under your clothes.
Point of view about unarmed fighting styles might have changed since trolls and orks are involved.
« Last Edit: <09-08-10/0851:33> by anotherJack »
Me am french, me am not speaking good english, but me am trying to correct this.

Mäx

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« Reply #6 on: <09-08-10/0856:58> »
Arsenal has whole half of a chapter dedicated to rules for Martial Art.
"An it harm none, do what you will"

Usda Beph

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« Reply #7 on: <09-08-10/0910:19> »
Arsenal has whole half of a chapter dedicated to rules for Martial Art.
K That may be true (yeah it is), but to me thats is still skimming the surface. I'm not arguing the complexity of adding another layer to Unarmed fighting, But in one of the expansions for The CBT:RPG there was a much better section for fighting IMO. The game mechanics are similar enough to almost copy:paste the info aren't they?




BTW I'm trying not to come acrossed as a jerk... I just love MAs and it could use some fluffing up. ;)
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Usda Beph

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« Reply #8 on: <09-08-10/0914:38> »
Quote
How unbalancing can an unarmed fighting style get compared to a Panther XXL?
By the rules, you can do the same DV than a Panther XXL with bare hands, but you can't carry your panther under your clothes.
Point of view about unarmed fighting styles might have changed since trolls and orks are involved.
Maybe so but can a karate kick destroy a Tank like a XXL? I don't believe so. I've seen/experienced the power of a masterful 1" power punch. It feels like being hit by a tank gun! :o
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My Dad worked out of el Toro In New Mexico.

Mooncrow

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« Reply #9 on: <09-08-10/0917:30> »
Quote
How unbalancing can an unarmed fighting style get compared to a Panther XXL?
By the rules, you can do the same DV than a Panther XXL with bare hands, but you can't carry your panther under your clothes.
Point of view about unarmed fighting styles might have changed since trolls and orks are involved.
Maybe so but can a karate kick destroy a Tank like a XXL? I don't believe so. I've seen/experienced the power of a masterful 1" power punch. It feels like being hit by a tank gun! :o

As written, an adept certainly can. 

Usda Beph

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« Reply #10 on: <09-08-10/0918:58> »
Quote
How unbalancing can an unarmed fighting style get compared to a Panther XXL?
By the rules, you can do the same DV than a Panther XXL with bare hands, but you can't carry your panther under your clothes.
Point of view about unarmed fighting styles might have changed since trolls and orks are involved.
Maybe so but can a karate kick destroy a Tank like a XXL? I don't believe so. I've seen/experienced the power of a masterful 1" power punch. It feels like being hit by a tank gun! :o

As written, an adept certainly can.  
Ahh, but an adept is using "magic" to enhance their attack thus changing the argument. Of course with "Magic" I can make my punch shatter steel.
« Last Edit: <09-08-10/0920:49> by Usda Beph »
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My Dad worked out of el Toro In New Mexico.

Mooncrow

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« Reply #11 on: <09-08-10/0921:36> »
Call it "qi", call it magic, call it what you will - adepts are supposed to be the advanced martial artists of the SR world.

Other marital artists could technically do it as well, with proper augmentation.

Usda Beph

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« Reply #12 on: <09-08-10/0929:04> »
Call it "qi", call it magic, call it what you will - adepts are supposed to be the advanced martial artists of the SR world.
I realize that and even accept that, but the Adept is still just a Vanilla artist. Is the Adept a Mantis Style or a Shotakan Master? There is a difference in how they would attack. It's a distiction I would like to have for my Characters. There is a wide veriety of firearms, ror simplicity/game balance we could  just have Pistol, Rifle, Assault Rifle, & Heavy Weapon. To me that is the arguement vs having more choices for MAs.
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I'm a Minotaur not a bully!
I studied at the Rocky Mountain Culinary School.I specialized in Seafood.
My Dad worked out of el Toro In New Mexico.

Irian

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« Reply #13 on: <09-08-10/0935:54> »
Slightly remembers me of... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv04IgDWAF4
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Usda Beph

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« Reply #14 on: <09-08-10/0945:08> »
Slightly remembers me of... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mv04IgDWAF4
This is a good lesson Irian.
Yeah, I'm A Minotaur! You Gotta Beef with that?
I'm a Minotaur not a bully!
I studied at the Rocky Mountain Culinary School.I specialized in Seafood.
My Dad worked out of el Toro In New Mexico.