[WellsIDidIt]

"Almost all", Wells, not "all". I'd argue that cybernetic implants, excepting cyberlimbs, do not have UAPs.

And yes, I just want to watch the world burn...

Read it again, because you seem to have gotten the two quotes mixed up.

Almost all cyberware devices have a neural interface.

All devices have a universal access port.

I wasn't discussing NI, I was discussing the universal access port that all devices have (and since cyberware is cleary listed as a device, it has them).

You're going to have to try harder to get the world to burn.

As to Xenon, nice list of some of the ways to connect it. All it requires is the wire to universal access port, which by the rules, cyberware has. Should it have it? Probably not. RAW however, it does. Unless you want to concede that cyberware is not a device, but that seems nonsensical seeing as how cyberware is found on the Device Rating table on page 234.

Bottom line is "all devices have a universal access port," and cyberware devices are devices (kind of blatant).

[SlowDeck]

This brings up an interesting question...

Where's the universal access port in bone lacing? And does getting the cord there to plug it in require lube?

[Demon_Bob]

This brings up an interesting question...

Where's the universal access port in bone lacing? And does getting the cord there to plug it in require lube?

It doesn't require lube, but you may want to use it anyway.

[martinchaen]

Flawless logic, Wells. Flawless.

/sarcasm

[WellsIDidIt]

Flawless logic, Wells. Flawless.

/sarcasm

all devices have a universal access port.

It is flawless. Please point out where the supposed almost all is in this quote. I can't find it.

The rules refer to cyberware implants as cyberware devices. Cyberware has a device rating. Cyberware can be hacked just like all devices.

So, please show me where cyberware is referred to as not a device.

I feel you must not understand the concept of sarcasm.

[Xenon]

In 5th edition you can connect to your cyberware wireless.
If you want to connect a wire to your cyberware you use your datajack.

As to Xenon...

If your smartlink is in your goggles then you connect your wire to your goggles.
If your smartlink is in your cybereye then you connect your wire to your datajack.

Period.

Where's the universal access port in bone lacing?

Either you turn your bone lacing wireless ON...
...or you attach a cable to the universal access port of your datajack.

[Xenon]

You don't put a cable directly into your eye.
According to all book references you put it into your datajack.

Your internal air tank does not provide you with DNI.
According to all book references DNI is provided by Trodes and Datajack.


Only at WellsIDidIt's table where you put cables directly into your eyes and get DNI from your air tank.

[SlowDeck]

Where's the universal access port in bone lacing?

Either you turn your bone lacing wireless ON...
...or you attach a cable to the universal access port of your datajack.

My question is for Wells 

After all, if all devices have a universal access port and all cyberware are devices, then bone lacing has a universal access port. In effect, it's a nonsensical rule. Which is why I would ignore it as a GM.

Add on the rules about being able to hack a device with wireless turned off by plugging a cable into it and suddenly the idea bone lacing has a UAP has some... unpleasant implications. Even worse if you pay attention to the bit about what all border agents can search inside of in the Coyotes book.

"We detected your bone lacing has no wireless access. Please turn its wireless on. ...you had it installed without wireless? Oh, I am so, so sorry..." (glovesnap) "We need to check the universal access port."

[martinchaen]

Wells,

Your argument is a clear example of a logical fallacy, in this case affirming the consequent. You're applying the most direct interpretation of a ruleset we know to be flawed, so your "If A, Then B" type logic just doesn't work.

This is not math. This is not a document of law written by professionals (no offense intended, CGL, but clearly, you're not laywers, and if you are, my apologies ). The kind of brute force logic you're applying to the rules doesn't work because a fair bit of interpretation is required on the behalf of us, the readers.

[WellsIDidIt]

The rules require us to interpret the english language. That is it. According to that, RAW is quite clear. Cyberware has universal access port. Maybe you should bother actually reading what has been posted. For example:

All it requires is the wire to universal access port, which by the rules, cyberware has. Should it have it? Probably not. RAW however, it does.

It isn't a logical fallacy to interpret RAW by what it says. RAW stands for Rules as Written, not Rules as Interpreted the Way the Author May or May Not Have Meant Them. Also, please actually look at the supposed fallacy. The converse error fallacy does not work the way you seem to think it does.

It's a simple fallacy, so I'll break it down for you.

If A, then B.
B
Therefore A.

In order for it to work here, I would be having to make a wholly different claim. My current point is that devices have a universal access port. For the fallacy to work, I would be having to base my proof that cyberware is a device on the fact that it has a universal access port. I'm not. I'm basing the fact that cyberware has a universal access port on the fact that cyberware is a device. It's the exact opposite of what you claim.

If A (device), then B (universal access port)
A (device)
therefore B (universal access port).

Alternately, you could claim that my proof that cyberware is a device to be fallacy, but again you would be wrong.

If A (on device rating table), then B (it's a device)
A (on device rating table)
therefore B (it's a device).

As for games, you're dead wrong. The rules for a game are meant to be like laws for running that game. Sure, you can change laws (house rule) for each game, but it's quite clear that they are supposed to be a governing factor for running the game. Are you trying to claim that laws do not require interpretation? If that's the case, a lot of Judges should probably be informed. You also clearly have far too high expectations of the kind of documents lawyers draft up. Catalyst's work is in less need of editing than most law documents I've seen. One NDA I had to sign actually said that I wasn't allowed to talk about any projects except for the one the NDA covered.

In effect, it's a nonsensical rule. Which is why I would ignore it as a GM.

I didn't write the rules. I'm just pointing out what they actually say by RAW. If we're going by what reasonable GMs use in their games, we might as well throw out about half of SR5.

In 5th edition you can connect to your cyberware wireless.
If you want to connect a wire to your cyberware you use your datajack.

Please point me to a quote stating that cyberware is not a device. Otherwise, by RAW, it comes with a universal access port per the quote I provided.

[martinchaen]

Your mind is already set, Wells. I'm not going to change your opinion (which, by the way, is what everything you are posting is, no matter how much you like to use terms like "RAW", and "we must" and arguments like "No, you're wrong!"), and you're unlikely to change my opinion of you or the rules because of the way you post. In essence, you come across as (whether you intend to or not) trying to bullying people into accepting your belief (correct or not) of what the rules do or do not state, and I've had quite enough insults to my intelligence for one day, thank you. Enjoy your next protracted "debate"; somehow I'm confident this won't be the last.

[Xenon]

The rules require us to interpret the english language. That is it.

SR5 p. 433 Smartgun System
The smartgun features are accessed either by universal access port cable to an imaging device (like glasses, goggles, or a datajack for someone with cybereyes) or by a wireless connection working in concert with direct neural interface.

SR5 p. 233 Direct Neural Interface
You get DNI by wearing trodes, or having an implanted datajack, commlink, or cyberdeck.



You can interpret the above two sentences as much as you like... they will still not state that you:
- can access smartgun system features by connecting cables directly to your eyes.
- get DNI by having an implanted air tank.