[Tagz]

So, I thought I had a handle on how it worked, but I just downloaded the 5th Edition Errata and am not so certain anymore.

Anyhow, the change seemed to remove the requirement that an entire action be spent doing things other then shooting, and now seems to require that just something other then shooting be done.  Is this correct?

ver1:
Simple Action used to shoot, then another to Take Aim = recoil still increasing.
Simple Action used to Reload, then another to shoot = recoil still increasing.
Complex action used to shoot = recoil still increasing
Simple Action used to Take Cover, another to Take Aim = progressive recoil reset.

ver2:
Simple Action used to shoot, then another to Take Aim = recoil reset
Simple Action used to relaod, then another to shoot = recoil reset
Complex Action used to shoot = recoil still increasing
Simple Action used to Take Cover, another to Take Aim = recoil reset

So, am I to take this change to mean that Progressive Recoil is really only something that effects Long Bursts, Semi-Auto Burst, and Full Auto (10 bullet)?

[RHat]

Well, it also has implications when the shot is your second Simple Action.

[Top Dog]

That's a surprising errata to me - I thought they'd swing the other way - but it does seem clear to me that (post-errata) version 2 is the correct one.

Good news for my full-auto rifle though, I guess it'll see more use after all.

[Michael Chandra]

I really think this is utter bull, since it means accumulative recoil has near-zero value as a balance mechanism. -_- The idea of an FA-dude firing 6 rounds per IP without ANY consequence whatsoever is just ridiculous. Now if it had been 2 Simple or 1 Complex, I'd have been fine with it.

Still, looks like Aaron got what he wanted, and I'll just have to run with it at Missions. -_- But I AM houseruling it once I ever start running SR5.

[Kanly]

I see where Michael is coming from... but one still needs to have 5 points of RC to use simple FA w/o penalties, so it prevents players from running around with machine guns without any recoil compensation but their bare hands - so they need gyros, set up tripods and all the RC accessories possible.

That said, the new ruling does pretty much erase Cumulative Recoil the way we thought it worked. I'm not yet convinced it's bad... it probably works out differently for different situations.
Eg.: non-combat characters trying to hold their own in a longer firefight with only the natural recoil... that would pretty much make an initial dicepool of 6-8 useless after a few passes.
But again, it does make the Simple Action FA pretty friggin strong. This is somewhat compensated by Heavy Weapons suffering double penalty from uncomp recoil, but that doesn't apply to AR's so...

[samoth]

An Ares Alpha with a Gas Vent III and Shock Pad had 6 Recoil comp, plus the minimum of 2 any character naturally has.  Full auto all day, every day, every round.

[Michael Chandra]

I see where Michael is coming from... but one still needs to have 5 points of RC to use simple FA w/o penalties, so it prevents players from running around with machine guns without any recoil compensation but their bare hands - so they need gyros, set up tripods and all the RC accessories possible.

4. That's Shockpad + Gasvent. Besides, Machine Guns aren't the problem, the Alpha is, and that only requires a Gas Vent 2.

[Namikaze]

I do agree with Michael on this.  It's getting houseruled in my game to require an Action Phase of no firing.  Whether they want to use 2 simple actions or 1 complex action doesn't matter to me as long as they stop holding the trigger.

[Michael Chandra]

So is that an Action Phase of no firing, or two subsequent Simple Actions of no firing, potentially split over two IPs? I'm still torn myself on which is the fairest.

[firebug]

Hmm.  There was a change to this?  Jeeze.  They may as well have removed the mechanic entirely and put it back to 4th edition's combat rules for all the impact it has now.  No, scratch that, 4th was way worse in that regard still.

But this seems like a baffling change.  Who thought it was bad in the first version?

I'd be going for "whole action phase without firing" which is what my understanding of the rules were.

[Michael Chandra]

Aaron said it wasn't his intent to have it like it was, this version seems to be what he intended. I don't like it, though, like Noise it now is no longer relevant for most people.

[Xenon]

I welcome that part of the errata. It make things somewhat semi-realistic. A troll using a gyromount shooting one bullet per complex action from a light pistol will no longer eventually build so much recoil he can't hit the broadside of a barn. Good call.

It also make sense since the only place they state "Remember the effects of cumulative recoil when using these fire modes." are for the complex action Fire Full-Auto Weapon and the complex action Fire Long Burst or Semi-Auto Burst. Not for the simple action counterparts.

[k_night]

so now SS weapons not accumulating recoil is completly superflious information, right? 

[JackVII]

so now SS weapons not accumulating recoil is completly superflious information, right? 

I guess it's good to know that you don't have to wait an action pass to eliminate any recoil when you fire your vehicle-mounted Panther XXL Assault Cannon.

There is a minor corner case where you might need to fire a SA weapon at the end of one action phase and then fire it as your first action in the next action phase that would generate recoil, but I can't really think of many situations where that would matter. Maybe squeezing off one more shot before going VR or commanding a spirit to attack a different target? SS weapons wouldn't have that minor problem.

In most cases, the only distinction I see now is that SA weapons can do SA Bursts.

[Namikaze]

So is that an Action Phase of no firing, or two subsequent Simple Actions of no firing, potentially split over two IPs? I'm still torn myself on which is the fairest.

I'd see it as a whole Action Phase without firing.  Especially when you start getting to really high Initiative scores, the ability to negate your recoil with an Action Phase seems totally fair to me.  It takes a split second or so to correct for recoil in real life.  Even if you had amazing reflexes, it would still take a split second, which I see as reflected by an Action Phase.