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What is the Best Revolver?

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Ajax

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« Reply #15 on: <03-25-12/1103:41> »
Let me begin by saying that I, personally, prefer revolver handguns to autoloading pistols for my own use out here in the real world. This has nothing to do with reliability, stopping power, or any of the other reasons you might here internet tough guys and armchair experts debating on the internet. I like revolvers mainly because they look nice, fit my hand well, and I'm a good shot with `em. Since I don't break into corporate research labs, engage in running gunfights with elven biker gangs, and have never once been attacked by a bug spirit, I don't worry much about only having five or six shots...

In the world of Shadowrun, well... Revolvers are are a distinct disadvantage to every other handgun in their class. They hold far less ammo, don't do any different damage, share the same legal status, and have all sorts of other limitations. But they do have style.

There are three Light Revolvers to chose from: The Colt Asp (AR p.21) does average Light Pistol damage, SA rate of fire, and has six shots, but it is dirt cheap; the Colt Coralsnake (GH p.10) does average Light damage, is SS, has only five shots and costs almost as much as a Viper. The Taurus Multi-6 (AR p.22) is... odd. It can fire Light ammo to do average Light damage at SA rates or fire Heavy Pistol ammo for average Heavy Pistol damage at SS rates. It's also pretty cheap. As much as I love revolvers, I cannot recommend any of these unless going "revolver only" is truly and deeply part of your concept. In which case, grab the Asp.

There are three Heavy Revolvers to chose from: the Cavalier Deputy (AR p.22) does average Heavy Pistol damage, fires at SA rates, and carries 7 rounds. As Heavy Pistols go, it's cheap. The Ruger Super Warhawk (SR4A p.317) does better than average damge, fires at SS rates, and holds six. The Ruger Bloodhawk (GH p.19) is just a terrible combination of the worst aspects of the other two revolvers for more than twice the price.

Basically, a revolver-lover in Shadowrun is faced with a choice between the faster-firing Deputy or the harder-hitting Warhawk. Will you need to shoot faster than SS? If yes, go with a Deputy. If no, go with the Warhawk. Personally my riggers, magicians, and hackers - when not built as frontline combatants - all pack Warhawks. If I need to shoot someone, I need them to drop. My gunslinger adepts or sammies all pack the Deputy... but there is a trick I've worked out with my GM in the past.

This is a bit of a stretch under the rules from SR4, but not so game breaking that I've had trouble getting it approved by anyone before. In fact, it isn't really stretching the rules so much as making people do a detailed reading of a chuck of rules most only ever gloss over. Go flip open your copy of SR4 and re-read Use Simple Object:

Quote
A character may use a simple object by taking a simple action. In this case "simple" is defined as any device or mechanism that can be operated via simple activity such as pushing a button, turning a knob, pulling a lever, and so on. The gamemastermust decide on a case-by-case basis.....

I dunno about you, but I'd say pulling back the hammer on a revolver is basically akin to "pulling a lever..." Now, this still leaves 99% of the world  limited to firing a SS revolver once per Action Phase. But, the Adept Power Nimble Fingers (see Street Magic) lets an Adept Use Simple Device as a free action. So if pulling back the hammer is (a) Using a Simple Device, and (b) the only  thing keeping a SS weapon from firing twice, then this combo is great... and my  physical adept Gunslinger will be able to fire his revolver six times in one round. (Two shots per initiative pass; three IP thanks to Improved Reflexes II.)

It takes a very specific set of Physical Adept Powers to pull off, I normally run with something like: Attribute Boost [Agility] I (0.25pts), Improved Reflexes II (3pts), Improved Pistols III (1.50pts), Nimble Fingers (0.25pts), Quick Draw (0.5pts), and Vision Magnification (0.25pts). I'll usually try to make myself a bit more well rounded and pick up something like Lingusitics (0.25pts) with the last bit.

Sure, a dude with a single Ares Predator is putting the same amount of lead  into the air... and a dude dual weilding machine pistols is hosing us both. But this guy has style, baby! And in Shadowrun, style can count for a lot. Below is a write-up of my last "Cowboy Adept" (who had amassed 20 Karma, but you should be able to reverse engineer this easily enough. Probably even improve on it as he was one of my first SR4 characters, and I only had SR4 and Street Magic to work with at the time...)

[spoiler="Cowboy Adept"]Metatype : Human
Attributes [200]
Bod:     4
Agi:     5
Rea:     5
Str:     3
Cha:     2
Intu:    3
Log:     3
Will:    3

Edge:   8
Essc:   6
Mag:    6 (5 @ CharGen, +18 karma)

Close Combat Group 1
Influence Group 1
Athletics Group 1
Infiltration 2
Shadowing 2
Pistols (Heavy) 7(9)

Positive Qualities
Ambidexterity (5)
Aptitude (Pistols) (10)
Lucky (20)
Physical Adept (5)

Negative Qualities
Addiction, mild       (-5)
Allergy, com. mild (shellfish) (-10)
Incompetent (swimming)  (-5)
Sensitive System                (-15)
Sensitive Neural Structure      (-5)
Simsense Vertigo                (-10)

Adept Powers
Attribute Boost (Agility) I     0.25
Improved Reflexes II    3.00
Improved Pistols III            1.50
Lingusitics                     0.25
Nimble Fingers          0.25
Quick Draw                      0.50
Vision Magnification    0.25

Resources:      ¥ 45,000
Contacts:
Fixer                   (L: 2 C: 2)
Triad Under Boss        (L: 3 C: 3)

400 BP, 20 Karma (18 spent, 2 unspent)[/spoiler]

What I ended up with is a guy in plain clothes, with minimal hardware, and a pair of wheelguns. An unusual choice in 2072, but hardly likly to attract undue attention from beat cops or corporate security. No outwardly obvious signs of magical activtiy (until the baloon goes up) means that, even without Masking, he's not going to be pegged as Awakened until someone actively checks out his aura. He's not a Face, but he's not going to put his foot in his mouth often. He's not a Ninja, but he can sneak around well enough to avoid low-tier mooks and cameras.

When the $#!+ does hit the fan, he can quickdraw and empty two revolvers in a single turn, with something around 8 to 9 dice per shot...  That's quality bang-bang.
Evil looms. Cowboy up. Kill it. Get paid.

UmaroVI

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« Reply #16 on: <03-25-12/1110:24> »
Isn't it a lot easier and less sketchy to just put the Firing Selection Change modification on the Ruger Super Warhawk to make it SA?

Ajax

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« Reply #17 on: <03-25-12/1113:16> »
Isn't it a lot easier and less sketchy to just put the Firing Selection Change modification on the Ruger Super Warhawk to make it SA?

Indeed it is, but this was very early into SR4's lifespan and we had only SR4 and Street Magic to work with. I never let something as mundane as lack of sourcebooks stand in my way of style. ;)
Evil looms. Cowboy up. Kill it. Get paid.

All4BigGuns

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« Reply #18 on: <03-25-12/1339:08> »
Let me begin by saying that I, personally, prefer revolver handguns to autoloading pistols for my own use out here in the real world. This has nothing to do with reliability, stopping power, or any of the other reasons you might here internet tough guys and armchair experts debating on the internet. I like revolvers mainly because they look nice, fit my hand well, and I'm a good shot with `em. Since I don't break into corporate research labs, engage in running gunfights with elven biker gangs, and have never once been attacked by a bug spirit, I don't worry much about only having five or six shots...

In the world of Shadowrun, well... Revolvers are are a distinct disadvantage to every other handgun in their class. They hold far less ammo, don't do any different damage, share the same legal status, and have all sorts of other limitations. But they do have style.

There are three Light Revolvers to chose from: The Colt Asp (AR p.21) does average Light Pistol damage, SA rate of fire, and has six shots, but it is dirt cheap; the Colt Coralsnake (GH p.10) does average Light damage, is SS, has only five shots and costs almost as much as a Viper. The Taurus Multi-6 (AR p.22) is... odd. It can fire Light ammo to do average Light damage at SA rates or fire Heavy Pistol ammo for average Heavy Pistol damage at SS rates. It's also pretty cheap. As much as I love revolvers, I cannot recommend any of these unless going "revolver only" is truly and deeply part of your concept. In which case, grab the Asp.

There are three Heavy Revolvers to chose from: the Cavalier Deputy (AR p.22) does average Heavy Pistol damage, fires at SA rates, and carries 7 rounds. As Heavy Pistols go, it's cheap. The Ruger Super Warhawk (SR4A p.317) does better than average damge, fires at SS rates, and holds six. The Ruger Bloodhawk (GH p.19) is just a terrible combination of the worst aspects of the other two revolvers for more than twice the price.

Basically, a revolver-lover in Shadowrun is faced with a choice between the faster-firing Deputy or the harder-hitting Warhawk. Will you need to shoot faster than SS? If yes, go with a Deputy. If no, go with the Warhawk. Personally my riggers, magicians, and hackers - when not built as frontline combatants - all pack Warhawks. If I need to shoot someone, I need them to drop. My gunslinger adepts or sammies all pack the Deputy... but there is a trick I've worked out with my GM in the past.

This is a bit of a stretch under the rules from SR4, but not so game breaking that I've had trouble getting it approved by anyone before. In fact, it isn't really stretching the rules so much as making people do a detailed reading of a chuck of rules most only ever gloss over. Go flip open your copy of SR4 and re-read Use Simple Object:

Quote
A character may use a simple object by taking a simple action. In this case "simple" is defined as any device or mechanism that can be operated via simple activity such as pushing a button, turning a knob, pulling a lever, and so on. The gamemastermust decide on a case-by-case basis.....

I dunno about you, but I'd say pulling back the hammer on a revolver is basically akin to "pulling a lever..." Now, this still leaves 99% of the world  limited to firing a SS revolver once per Action Phase. But, the Adept Power Nimble Fingers (see Street Magic) lets an Adept Use Simple Device as a free action. So if pulling back the hammer is (a) Using a Simple Device, and (b) the only  thing keeping a SS weapon from firing twice, then this combo is great... and my  physical adept Gunslinger will be able to fire his revolver six times in one round. (Two shots per initiative pass; three IP thanks to Improved Reflexes II.)

It takes a very specific set of Physical Adept Powers to pull off, I normally run with something like: Attribute Boost [Agility] I (0.25pts), Improved Reflexes II (3pts), Improved Pistols III (1.50pts), Nimble Fingers (0.25pts), Quick Draw (0.5pts), and Vision Magnification (0.25pts). I'll usually try to make myself a bit more well rounded and pick up something like Lingusitics (0.25pts) with the last bit.

Sure, a dude with a single Ares Predator is putting the same amount of lead  into the air... and a dude dual weilding machine pistols is hosing us both. But this guy has style, baby! And in Shadowrun, style can count for a lot. Below is a write-up of my last "Cowboy Adept" (who had amassed 20 Karma, but you should be able to reverse engineer this easily enough. Probably even improve on it as he was one of my first SR4 characters, and I only had SR4 and Street Magic to work with at the time...)

[spoiler="Cowboy Adept"]Metatype : Human
Attributes [200]
Bod:     4
Agi:     5
Rea:     5
Str:     3
Cha:     2
Intu:    3
Log:     3
Will:    3

Edge:   8
Essc:   6
Mag:    6 (5 @ CharGen, +18 karma)

Close Combat Group 1
Influence Group 1
Athletics Group 1
Infiltration 2
Shadowing 2
Pistols (Heavy) 7(9)

Positive Qualities
Ambidexterity (5)
Aptitude (Pistols) (10)
Lucky (20)
Physical Adept (5)

Negative Qualities
Addiction, mild       (-5)
Allergy, com. mild (shellfish) (-10)
Incompetent (swimming)  (-5)
Sensitive System                (-15)
Sensitive Neural Structure      (-5)
Simsense Vertigo                (-10)

Adept Powers
Attribute Boost (Agility) I     0.25
Improved Reflexes II    3.00
Improved Pistols III            1.50
Lingusitics                     0.25
Nimble Fingers          0.25
Quick Draw                      0.50
Vision Magnification    0.25

Resources:      ¥ 45,000
Contacts:
Fixer                   (L: 2 C: 2)
Triad Under Boss        (L: 3 C: 3)

400 BP, 20 Karma (18 spent, 2 unspent)[/spoiler]

What I ended up with is a guy in plain clothes, with minimal hardware, and a pair of wheelguns. An unusual choice in 2072, but hardly likly to attract undue attention from beat cops or corporate security. No outwardly obvious signs of magical activtiy (until the baloon goes up) means that, even without Masking, he's not going to be pegged as Awakened until someone actively checks out his aura. He's not a Face, but he's not going to put his foot in his mouth often. He's not a Ninja, but he can sneak around well enough to avoid low-tier mooks and cameras.

When the $#!+ does hit the fan, he can quickdraw and empty two revolvers in a single turn, with something around 8 to 9 dice per shot...  That's quality bang-bang.

I applaud you, Sir, on finally seeing an adept built that hasn't had his soul corrupted.
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CitizenJoe

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« Reply #19 on: <03-25-12/1358:07> »
At some point did we lose the technology for double action revolvers?

Ajax

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« Reply #20 on: <03-25-12/1404:11> »
At some point did we lose the technology for double action revolvers?

During those dark ages between the publication of SR4 Core Rulebook, with its lone SS revolver, and Aresenal with its pair of SA revolvers. Yes, yes we did. Of course, going by SR1 through SR3, we also lost the technology to make silencers for revolvers from sometime before 2050 until sometime prior to 2070. I blame Crash 1.0....  ;D

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CitizenJoe

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« Reply #21 on: <03-25-12/1444:49> »
You know, the funny thing is that I've got a character that dresses up like an old gumshoe that carries an ancient .38 with genuine wood grips.  Although it is probably a double action model, it is actually a cigarette lighter.

K_killn

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« Reply #22 on: <03-25-12/1446:45> »
If was going for style I would use a SlamDance Gun-Sword

EDIT:Or maybe this:
« Last Edit: <03-25-12/1623:20> by K_killn »

CanRay

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« Reply #23 on: <03-30-12/0952:42> »
If was going for style I would use a SlamDance Gun-Sword

EDIT:Or maybe this:
Pinfire, horrible cartridge design.
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Patrick Goodman

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« Reply #24 on: <03-30-12/1008:01> »
But a metric fuckton of panache. :)

Oh, and to the OP: the Cavalier Deputy. But I'm biased.
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CanRay

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« Reply #25 on: <03-30-12/2244:38> »
Oh, and to the OP: the Cavalier Deputy. But I'm biased.
No, you're dead...

Or...  Are you?   :o
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Morg

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« Reply #26 on: <03-31-12/0121:04> »
Oh, and to the OP: the Cavalier Deputy. But I'm biased.
No, you're dead...

Or...  Are you?   :o

Maybe he is Undead?

CanRay

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« Reply #27 on: <03-31-12/0244:27> »
Oh, and to the OP: the Cavalier Deputy. But I'm biased.
No, you're dead...

Or...  Are you?   :o
Maybe he is Undead?
Don't make me list the levels of "Dead" again.  I have a broken arm!!!  :'(
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Mirikon

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« Reply #28 on: <03-31-12/1027:27> »
Oh, and to the OP: the Cavalier Deputy. But I'm biased.
No, you're dead...

Or...  Are you?   :o
Maybe he is Undead?
Don't make me list the levels of "Dead" again.  I have a broken arm!!!  :'(
Someone forgot to double-tap?
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Ethan

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« Reply #29 on: <03-31-12/1806:15> »
Best Revolver is still probably a Ruger Super Warhawk with Personalized Grip, SA firing mod, internal smartgun and skinlink. That should all fit. Pricy but effective. Laser sight for intimidation reasons if the Super Warhawk itself wasn't enough.