[Usda Beph]

Proof that enough "deactivated" anti theft patches can set off a reader!

[Chaotic Insane]

What's really funny is when I'm stocking right next to the door and get too close to the readers and it picks up everything on the cart I'm taking to the shelves and it has a total seizure. XD

[Usda Beph]

 

[FastJack]

Honestly, with modern technology available, I don't think that hand-crafted items are better than modern replacements. A katana, made from modern (2070) materials will probably as good as katanas will ever be without becoming a lightsaber or vibro blade. Nostalgia, etc. will still make hand-crafted items expensive and wanted, but I wouldn't give them a bonus to AP.

Actually, that's not entirely true.

Ask any chef if he wants a cast (made from a mold/stamp press) or a forged (hand-crafted) knife; 99% will probably say they want a hand-forged knife. When you create a blade from a mold or stamp-press, it simply a sheet that's been sharpened on one side. These knives tend to dull quicker, chip easier and just wear out. Whereas forged blades are worked and folded over and over again, so there's layers of metal. This generally makes the blade stronger and keeps an edge sharper longer and less chance of chipping the blade.

I know from my own kitchen blades that there is a HUGE difference between the forged blades and the cast blades (and my fingers have a few scars where I learned the difference the hard way).

[Usda Beph]

Yea that is true, but now we can fold metal using CNC machines and sharpen a blades using percision grinders. Less time same quality. At least thats what I think he was saying.

[Irian]

I did not talk about NOW. I was talking about 2070. Of course you can make everything cheap, but it's also entirely possible to create a piece of crap by hand-forging it :-) But it seems pretty possible to me, that in 2070, there will be more than enough ways to make blades in a factory that are at least as good as good hand-crafted ones.

[FastJack]

Well, the way I see it, casting will always be cheaper than forging to produce, so that Ares CutzKleen® Longsword will more than likely be a cast blade. Your average Katana in 2070 will be machine forged (granting it that -1 AP). So a hand-forged blade by a master should be -2 AP, -3 if they are a world-renowned grand master.

[Usda Beph]

We should get myth busters on this issue. Are machine folded blades as good as as hand crafted! It's a topic I wouldn't want to wager on. Specially since I am a Toolmaker/Machining Specialist.!

[Shadowwalker]

You could also grant a different bonus taking into account a better balanced weapon granting a +1-3 dice pool bonus note the cost should reflect the bonus no-matter what the bonus

[Devil]

Don't forget that in Shadowrun, "the old ways" might have benefits to them magically.  It's easier for an Adept to Attune with something less technologically advanced, for instance, or for a Mage to use Analyze Device.  I'd say it's more in keeping with some magical Traditions to have an old-style, hand-made, weapon for a Focus than for it to be an all polymer, laser-etched, yadda yadda yadda high tech folding knife.

It all comes down to flavor...but in a world with magic, sometimes that "flavor" can be pretty strong.

Japanese swordsmiths often have a priest chant shinto blessings during the entire process. Norse swordsmiths were believed to imbue the swords that they made with their magical strength. I can also think of a number of runes and charms that could easily strengthen a weapon if used properly. This is just off the top of my head. Weapons in a world where magic exists could be exponentially more devastating than their mundane counterparts. One has to keep game balance and mechanics in mind, but still...certain crafting processes should make a better weapon.

[FastJack]

Well, the magical part is taken into account when an Awakened character bonds with the weapon (gaining the power of the weapon focus as bonus die on to-hit attacks).

I agree that if you pay for quality, you should get it. I think there should be 4 levels of quality:

Quality	AP Adj.	Cost	Description
Poor	+1	25% of Normal	Either it second-, third- or even fourth-hand used. It's seen a lot of time on the streets and it shows. But, hey, you get what you pay for. And what you paid for is a blunt, rusty blade.
Average	+0	Normal	Straight from the store, still in it's wrapper. Love that new blade smell!
Mastercraft	-1	10x Normal	This was lovingly crafted by hand (or a really high-end fabricator).
Legendary	-2	100x Normal	Maybe by a master craftsmen, afficionados will recognize the maker's style upon examination. Only a few of these exist in the world.

[Lansdren]

Well, the magical part is taken into account when an Awakened character bonds with the weapon (gaining the power of the weapon focus as bonus die on to-hit attacks).

I agree that if you pay for quality, you should get it. I think there should be 4 levels of quality:

Quality	AP Adj.	Cost	Description
Poor	+1	25% of Normal	Either it second-, third- or even fourth-hand used. It's seen a lot of time on the streets and it shows. But, hey, you get what you pay for. And what you paid for is a blunt, rusty blade.
Average	+0	Normal	Straight from the store, still in it's wrapper. Love that new blade smell!
Mastercraft	-1	10x Normal	This was lovingly crafted by hand (or a really high-end fabricator).
Legendary	-2	100x Normal	Maybe by a master craftsmen, afficionados will recognize the maker's style upon examination. Only a few of these exist in the world.

I kinda like that as a idea its not two over powering but gives some nice talking points.

From the real world I can see where everyones coming from, about half my swords are pressed and half are forged. The pressed ones arnt bad and can take full combat but they still wear out pretty fast and require more care to remove the burrs where as my nicer stuff (I have a very nice swordsmith contact who will do my custom work) will last much longer even with constent use (full blade on blade training once a week).

[Kontact]

We should get myth busters on this issue. Are machine folded blades as good as as hand crafted! It's a topic I wouldn't want to wager on. Specially since I am a Toolmaker/Machining Specialist.!

The very first episode of another Discovery Channel show, Weapon Masters, already did this.

Really though, katanas are kind of crap for piercing armor anyway, so their base AP -1 makes little real world sense.  They're slicing weapons, not bashers or stabbers.

Traditionally, in SR, weapon quality only comes up on a glitch, not in the general use of the weapon.


Final word:  In 2070, machines have hands.  So, hand forged and machine forged are really a blurred line.

[Chaotic Insane]

^ That, that there made a whole lot more sense than everything else in this thread on the matter.

They probably just gave it a -1 for flavor text since everyone's all "zOMFG KATANA!!!11!1"

Me? I want some of those Indian swords and Transylvanian weapons from Deadliest Warrior. Real life sword whip? OH HELL YES. Who cares if it's impractical. After a couple swings of you not eviscerating yourself your opponent's probably a little hesitant to get anywhere within range. They have that momentum-based-sword that cut through a pig like hot butter for actual practicality.

[Usda Beph]

I don't know Kontact. I'm a Toolmaker and I can and do get a better surface finish milling or lathing by hand than I do using a CNC machine. There is actually a feel to machining that I'm sure holds true to forging a sword. A craftsman can match/beat a CNC machine for quality, we cannot compare to it for speed though.