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Rigger 5 Errata

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ClaytonCross

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« Reply #225 on: <02-10-16/2118:54> »
I have found a few things missing and unclear still after the release of Rigger5.0

- The rigger bonus for hot-sim! Does the hardware bonus of +1 for using a rig in hot-sim bonus stack with the +2 hot-sim status bonus? Replace it? Replace but miss print? Not sure why any decent rigger would risk possible death by getting physical damage for there drone being shot add destroyed for +1 dice pool when you figure they have about 15 in cold-sim because all there other bonus are still valid. Aaron posted on the rule FAK that they are cumulative but still most GMs would not take that as an answer with out official text.

- Basic rigger equation in one place?
    AR gives  skill dice + attribute dice - net noise[Limit +1 AR] for driving test
    VR gives skill dice + rig rating + attribute dice +2 hot-sim + 1 hot-sim-rig - net noise [Limit +2VR + rig rating](threshold  - rig rating)

- An interval listed for salvage tests?

- For Salvage tests Rigger 5.0 states that you state the "damage" you wish to inflict on vehicle/drone/gear in order to salvage. I make 3 assumption that are not stated any where and I would think they should be.
  1.  max limit is that of the whole condition monitor (should be obvious but I don't believe it is stated)
  2.  This "damage" is run against the condition monitor of a completely full condition monitor (destroyed) because you could just dismantle a full health drone for 100% of the parts -1 for every 2 points of damage it has? (because if it is 1 for 1 then you would get 0 from salvage instead of about 50%)
  3. Choosing to do less damage does not exclude further searches only limit them to search with a total of damage chosen
(so you search a destroyed 8 health drone for 4 damage twice, it means you take twice as long to salvage parts but you are likely to get double the parts, you search the drone once for 8 apply edge you could get the same number of parts in half the time, or you do 1 pass without edge and just get the easy to find and remove parts but the damage you make searching make additional runs pointless)
  4. Possible example for a pass: Mechanic skill + Logic +2 AR +1 working condition + 1 Superior tools [damage inflicted + 2 special work area]

- There is a vehicle upgrade interval listed for 1 hr. but this does not specify drones. It could be inferred but since all the rules for vehicle upgrades and drone upgrades are separated and different it seems counter intuitive. Also I wonder if the smaller size/weigh for upgrading a drone may take half as much time.

- Drone upgrade thresholds? The vehicle upgrade charts are awesome! but drones seem short on charts and lack thresholds listed like the ones vehicles have. There is no part or shop requirements listed either. It looks like you pay and the magically upgrade. Poof!

- Drone pilots are they protected, save-able, random chance of lose when a drone is destroyed? As the most expensive, possibly most internal and protected part, that is also not salvageable, how do you determine if your pilot programs is intact and reusable on the same drone if rebuilt? Matrix damage and electrical damage target the pilot program? Could a matrix attack wipe the pilot and force you to buy a new one or would it be repairable always via matrix damage repair? So rebuild the body then roll for matrix repair to restore the damaged pilot no matter what?

- Can you use salvaged parts to reduce vehicle upgrade costs (like turning a standard vehicle weapon mount into a vehicle turret for +5,000 newyen - part cost at rate of x per part?

- Parts recovered from vehicle = vehicle parts, parts from drones = drone parts, do they further need to be broken down by automotive (land craft), aeronautical, etc?

- Does repairing a drone from 0 health to full include upgrades? Do upgrades get destroyed? (similar to pilot question)

- Upgrade pilots still a repair test or a computer test, threshold, interval?

- drone surprise test pilot x2 [sensors](3) ?

- Drone / vehicle damage track modifiers only handling limit but at what damage to modifier rate? guessing -1 per 3 damage, also does the minim 1 apply before or after rigger/AR/VR limit modifiers?

- Drone avoid sensors evasion, everything else uses stealth. 2 autosofts to cover one skill? or why not meta-humans to avoid with a doge action to make them correspond again?

- Gunnery with a directly connected joystick =  manual with agility?  directly connected deck  =  remote with logic? because a manual joy stick vs a device to device remote? or both logic even though they are not actually wireless remote and the joystick is not really another device but an interface directly into the turret?

- Drone physical attack defense = pilot + autosoft (Maneuvering?) [handling] not just chase but always?

That's all I can think of out of hand. I may find more. Errata appreciated!

Edit: See I knew I would have more.... just needed a break.

- Also drone / vehicle character sheets

- Pictures of all of them

- Actual size estimates

- A speed relation table so you know if your 4 Speed, 4 handling roto drone is actually faster and capable of keeping up with your Mirage bike or Gopher Trunk even though it has lower stats because according to the information trail on vehicle speeds a 4 ground vehicle and a 4 roto drone are moving at completely different speed ratios. That would also need to include drone to foot relation ship for how far the move on a turn (walk, run, sprint) using those 2 stats.

Edit 2: additional equipment wishlist

- RCC options would be nice. (maybe 1 with some sleeze for defense, 1 that has been optimized for autosofts holding double its rating  but can't run cyberware at all and also provides no noise reduction (possibly allowing a full stock of autosofts for more than 1 drone), or 1 that can only run cyberware but gets plus 1 cumulative biofeedback resistance.

- A ground pilot drone with no pre mounted weapons mounts and an increase mod slot volume like a roto-drone. Maybe there is one with a higher body but I know the roto-drone is very customizable to the point I prefer it most by far. Add that its reasonably priced... well before mod, and air born and its just too much fun to pick anything else.

Edit 3: Hopefully the last for a while

- Gunnary says weapons mounted on vehicles take a full action to fire no matter what the fire mode is. Does that include drones and jumped in operations? If so this would greatly weaken riggers by reducing there options.

Edit 4: Hands on Manual override electronic systems?

- Playing the other day we had a case where we needed to disable an enemy transport to prevent his escape. We managed to get on to his transport and wanted to take owner ship but that is a 24 hour test and would take too long. So plan B. Decker sleazed 3 marks to stop notifications and the rigger and decker did a hardware group test to disable electronic controls and the pilot. Since there is no rule for this the change ownership threshold of 24 was used, and an interval of 15 mins. Then we had to risk the wrath of G.O.D.  and notification to the owner if we fail or failed to do it fast enough. We edged our way to success and were able to basically strip the transport to manual operation with not wired/remote control available. Then the rigger used nautical mechanic to lockup manual controls with a hidden release so the transport was not going anywhere but we could use it to escape in a pinch because we knew exactly how to re-enable manual controls. So the question, could there be an official hardware lock down of electronic signals test? This has a number of applications for riggers. You could setup a drone for example to be an auto response body guard while your jumped in and have no risk of it being hacked and killing you while helpless. It would also prevent the rigger from controlling his own drone so you are only allowing it to perform restated commands but it seems like turning of wireless and/or the pilot on vehicles/drones should be a listed test particularly since manual override is already in the game as hardware modification for vehicles. Some rules for that would be nice though.
« Last Edit: <02-11-16/2137:38> by ClaytonCross »
I write long and repetitive trying to be clear, I am bad at examples, so people commonly skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of my actual point. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.

boongeebee

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« Reply #226 on: <02-12-16/1541:53> »
Does anyone know if and when they will write up an official errata and release it?

Fabe

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« Reply #227 on: <02-12-16/1925:25> »
Does anyone know if and when they will write up an official errata and release it?

Don't hold your breath. Right now errata is one thing that they seemed to have draped the ball on. From what I hear, Pegasus, the German publishers of Shadowrun have been doing quit well when it comes to errata something I contribute to them having more time to work on it since I assume they' have more time to work on fixing errors since they're not also working on creating as much new material. So provided Catalyst isn't  just letting   Pegasus do what ever they want when it comes to errata it would be nice if they translated and published the German Errata if Catalyst doesn't have time to work on it them selves.

ClaytonCross

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« Reply #228 on: <02-12-16/2012:39> »
@ boongeebee

As someone who just posted about 20 questions and because this site does not have an up vote option, I have to say +1 to you sir! That is the question of the forum!
I write long and repetitive trying to be clear, I am bad at examples, so people commonly skim my posts pull out the idea they think I mean or want to argue against or focus on my bad example instead of my actual point. I apologies for the confusion my failure to be clear and concise creates.

drseltsam83

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« Reply #229 on: <02-12-16/2206:16> »
(Primitive) Drone Armes:
I want a Steel Lynx to have (primitive) arms to assist mechanics in a garage.
Therefore I imagine a multiple-limb arm with very simple tools like drill, grappler, etc on it. Anyway it should be strong enough to e.g. lift an enigne. I aim to STR 12
Calculating the cost:
Drone arm: 7500+6*6,5k = 46,5k
Primitive arm: 1500+6*6,5k = 40,5k
This arm could lift 12*15=180kg (w/o additional check), no matter whether the arm is primitive or not.
I see some problems here:
1. Rulebook says this is a (metahuman) cyberarm-like. So lets say with a length of 1m? That is pretty much short. Ok, I'd say GM could agree on more length/limbs.
2. It is still not capable of lifting huge weights... ok, with a second arm and good checks it could be 500kg, but this leads to the real problem:
3. It costs too much. Lets have a look at the prebuilt drones with drone arms (there is not even one drone with primitive arms!!)
Evo Proletarian and Mule are listed with low weight use cases, so I focus on Mesametric Kodiak which seems to be a heavy machine (at least from my pov). It comes with STR 12 drone arm and it costs 40k. Hmm... Its body is 6 like the steel lynx. So why not buy 2 Kodiaks rip of the arms and plug them into my Lynx? That would save 13k and I could still sell 2 bulldozers.

drseltsam83

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« Reply #230 on: <02-14-16/1516:08> »
Ramming damage does not take the oponents body into account.

A Roadmaster "crashing" into a trash can would easily put damage on the can, but the Roadmaster would take a lot of damage itself because the target's body is not considered. Damage to the Roadmaster is calculated from its own body, whatever is being rammed.

In a extreme case: Ramming a MCT FlySpy which flys at full speed (3, aircraft triples speed in ramming table = 9) towards the Roadmaster at full speed (3) would easily kill the Roadmaster (and itself as well for obvious reasons) because the collision speed (12) would select a x10 multiplier. That is 180 damage. DEAD. Even w/o aircrafts involved, this makes touching things a deadly game for heavy vehicles.

Got I something wrong? Is the oponents body used for damage calculation? I'm missing a rule for this.

Rift_0f_Bladz

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« Reply #231 on: <02-17-16/1326:13> »
Also dealing with ramming kinda, ram plates done have cost, construction rules, or number of weapon mod slots used. If this has been address, I apologize.
Quote- Mirikon on 7/30/2019 at 08:26:51
Agreed. This looks like a 'training wheels' edition, that you can use to introduce someone to the setting, and then shift over to something like 5E or 4E. Like how D&D 5E is best used as training wheels for D&D 3.X.

Turned in Toxshaman for 1 million/4 once.

Nefasine

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« Reply #232 on: <02-29-16/1201:25> »
@drseltsam83
It may have changed in the print but the digital copy I have, has the steel lynx with a str 12 primitive arm only costing $6,900
To break it down
Cyberarm original cost = 15,000
Str increase to 6 to match Lynx body score = 15,000
Str Increase beyond 6 (to 6 in this case) is Rating*6,500 = 39,000
Running total = 69,000
Primitive arms cost a tenth of the cost = 6,900

if the pilot program was increased above 3 then the cost would rise by another 500 per rating over (up to rating 6) as the arms agility must match the pilot rating

For length I would go off the Vehicle mod articulated arm and do Body*10
which is normally 60cm (decent) but those rules don't allow you to increase the strength of the arm;
so it may be argued that for drones it would be arm Str*10
So 120cm or 1.2m which is honestly fairly large; you would start having issues with tipping over at that point.
The world is as I say it is

drseltsam83

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« Reply #233 on: <03-02-16/1936:12> »
Hi Nefasine
Rules say, primitive arms cost 10% instead of 50%. With respect to drone arms, rules say, they cost 50%, but upgrades are at full price.
If the intension of the author is that 10% affect upgrades as well, it should be clarified.
Thanks for your notion to arm length.
« Last Edit: <03-02-16/1937:49> by drseltsam83 »

Wakshaani

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« Reply #234 on: <03-13-16/0956:51> »
Upgrade costs aren't reduced, no. Primative drone arms don't have fully-functional hands like a normal limb, but instead of a more primative grasper, like a suction cup. Making the arm stronger doesn't care how many fingers the hand has. ::)

Ruffio

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« Reply #235 on: <03-18-16/1453:39> »
Maybe I'm missing something here, but on p. 174 under "Vehicle Actions" it says that "each vehicle action describes the threshold, along with the modifiers added".

However, with each and every vehicle test on the following pages, there are only mentioned the modifiers (mostly terrain and speed). The threshold itself (according to the table in the core book, p. 199) is completely left out.

Cheers
Ruffio

Fabe

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« Reply #236 on: <04-03-16/1156:34> »
Maybe I'm missing something here, but on p. 174 under "Vehicle Actions" it says that "each vehicle action describes the threshold, along with the modifiers added".

However, with each and every vehicle test on the following pages, there are only mentioned the modifiers (mostly terrain and speed). The threshold itself (according to the table in the core book, p. 199) is completely left out.

Cheers
Ruffio

the thresholds are there listed in brackets ( threshold) .  for example the threshold for pulling a bootlegger turn is the terrain modifier plus the speed of the target vehicle  while the threshold for catch up/break away is equal to the terrain modifier plus the difference in speed between the acting vehicle and the target vehicle

Fabe

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« Reply #237 on: <04-04-16/0054:44> »


   I think I found a error in the Behind Vehicle side bar on page 180, Assuming he's jumped in Shouldn't Thrashers rating 1 control rig reduce the threshold of the drive by/broadside test by 1 from 3 to 2 as well as increase the handling limit of his car ifrom 5 to 6 allowing him to count all 6 hits? Or is Thrasher not actually jumped in during this action?
   

  Also does any one else find its odd that the Rigger cocoon is listed under power train mods? I mean it does';t change how the vehicle moves f hows its  controlled, it just provides protection for the Rigger wether its moving or not. To me it makes more sense for it to be a protection mod.

     

tequila

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« Reply #238 on: <04-07-16/0821:25> »
For the PDF Bookmarks: Building the Perfect Beast>Modification List is missing Body (p. 163).  It should be between Weapons and Electromagnetic
#thistasergoesto11

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Major Doom

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« Reply #239 on: <04-07-16/1412:44> »
Under Special Tires, page 153, in the description it says changing tires requires Automotive Mechanic + Logic [Logic] (4, 5 minutes) Extended Test.  I'm guessing the Limit is supposed to be Mental, not Logic.
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