[忍]

Say I've got a cyber arm with a common installed. Do I have a DNI thus not needing image or sound link?

As headware the community gives DNI, and all cyberware has a neural interface. Could it not confer the DNI from a limb?

[firebug]

Say I've got a cyber arm with a common installed. Do I have a DNI thus not needing image or sound link?

As headware the community gives DNI, and all cyberware has a neural interface. Could it not confer the DNI from a limb?

It may seem pedantic, but the neural interface normal cyberware offers you is different from DNI.  Cyberware allows you to control it and its functions the same way you would a normal limb.  Alternatively, some functions are done with physical switches on the 'ware itself.  Especially exotic functions are not covered by this and thus require a real wireless connection to do (hence wireless bonuses to activate certain limb enhancements with your mind).  DNI refers to the ability to interact with Augmented Reality or Virtual Reality purely with your mind, and not having to use a keyboard or any peripherals.  It's given to you when your device (commlink, RCC, cyberdeck) has a sim module installed (which I think only commlinks don't come with) and you have something allowing you access DNI.

Those things would be Trodes, a Datajack, or a Control Rig.  Technomancers also have a natural DNI as they already do everything purely by thought.  Anything else that says it can "act as a datajack" can probably be used for DNI as well.

[忍]

So it's no different than having a comm on your wrist?

[Hobbes]

So it's no different than having a comm on your wrist?

You'll still need a Datajack or 'trodes or something to get your DNI and Wireless bonuses.  Form factor and location of the Com don't matter.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Purely from a Devil's Advocate point of view I'd argue as follows.

By RAW an implanted commlink provides DNI, this is not up for debate.

However, the rules do not clarify that said implanted commlink has to be paid for with essence in order for it to provide DNI.

Since implanted commlinks can be installed either directly in the flesh with an essence cost or in other gear with capacity such as a cyberlimb, both should provide the same benefit given no other information.

That's RAW as I see it; it'd be up to each table to decide whether that's appropriate, but by RAW an implanted commlink seems to provide DNI regardless of method or location used.

[SichoPhiend]

It's also worth noting (as something was mentioned about it before) that an implanted Commlink automatically comes with a SIM module

[Reaver]

AFB: But this IS covered in the CRB in the matrix section. It goes over how DNI for cyberware and DNI for matrix actions differ.

Wish I could remember the page number 215? 222? Something like that....

[Herr Brackhaus]

Reaver
Correct, there is a difference between DNI and neural interface. But for the purposes of this discussion, all that really matters is that the character has an implanted commlink, which grants DNI. There is no mention of a requirement for said commlink to be implanted using Essence cost to gain DNI, though that is a fair house rule and/or interpretation.

[Blue Rose]

AFB: But this IS covered in the CRB in the matrix section. It goes over how DNI for cyberware and DNI for matrix actions differ.

Wish I could remember the page number 215? 222? Something like that....

Then clearly when you get your commlink installed in a cyberlimb, they do a little extra wiring to cover your DNI.

There are quite a few things you can put in a cyberlimb that would require extra wiring.

[Kiirnodel]

AFB: But this IS covered in the CRB in the matrix section. It goes over how DNI for cyberware and DNI for matrix actions differ.

Wish I could remember the page number 215? 222? Something like that....

There is a sidebar on page 222 that describes Direct Neural Interface, but I don't see anything about how the DNI for cyberware is different from the DNI for matrix actions. Only thing it says is that you get a DNI by wearing trodes or by having a datajack, commlink, or cyberdeck implanted. Which brings us back to what Herr Brackhaus mentioned, by RAW, the commlink installed in a cyberlimb is technically an implanted commlink.

[Blue Rose]

I don't even see how that's a "technically."

The doc is installing a commlink in your body.  Of course they're gonna put in whatever extra wiring you need to use all its features.

[Kiirnodel]

Not disagreeing with you, but I can foresee where some people might argue against it. Arguments like:

• They are just installing the commlink somewhere in the arm, that's just like a form-factor
• You can install components in the arm after it is originally installed so it doesn't have that wiring in it by default

Although in response to my own "Devil's Advocacy" I would respond:
Commlinks take up the same capacity [2] in a cyberlimb as a Smuggling Compartment, which by description can likely hold a commlink and more. By getting just the Commlink a) you are paying 2000 nuyen more for the cyber-implant version, and b) it is fully integrated into the wiring of the arm, not just a fast removable component.

ETA:
I did find a mention of difference between Cyberware neural interface and DNI, it is at the beginning of Augmentations in the Gear chapter (pg 451)

Besides their wireless functionality, almost all cyberware devices are equipped with a neural interface (not to be confused with DNI) that lets you mentally activate and control their functions. You can use this in place of wireless control, preventing wireless hacking, as long as all of the "moving parts" are connected to your nervous system. An item that has a wireless bonus, however, can only gain that full level of functionality if wireless functionality is active.

but nonetheless, this doesn't discount the idea that you can still get the full DNI functionality by installing an implant Commlink in a device that has Capacity.

[Coyote]

I don't even see how that's a "technically."

The doc is installing a commlink in your body.  Of course they're gonna put in whatever extra wiring you need to use all its features.

My interpretation as well. You pay a lot of Essence for a cyberarm, part of that is implicitly for allowing any additional cyberware purchased with arm slots to work as if it were purchased directly. Would anyone really cavil at the idea that vision enhancements for a cybereye are treated as if they were purchased directly for a normal eye?

[Hobbes]

The other argument is that the description for Implanted Commlink doesn't say you get DNI.  Just sayin. 

Ultimately you can get DNI for 70 Nuyen at any Stuffer Shack or Wall-Kong so it's really irrelevant in all but the most bizarre situations.  Most folks with an implanted Commlink or Cyberdeck (this entire discussion applies equally to both) are going to have a Datajack or six anyway.  But it would be nice if the gear descriptions specified, rather than hoping the player uses a Word Find function to trip over a side bar 200 pages back, or hope the gear description for Sim Module knows something about implanted Commlinks and Cyberdecks the gear description for Implanted Commlinks and Cyberdecks doesn't.

An analogy is drone speed.  The assorted vehicle movement rules imply drones move, but if a drone didn't have a speed listed (hello MCT Gun Turret) you would presume, correctly, that the drone is immobile.  And the MCT Gun Turret description does flat out state "Immobile" so the guesswork is removed. 

The Sidebar back on ?222? and the Sim Module descriptions imply that an implanted Commlink/Cyberdeck grant DNI, but the gear description doesn't.  YMMV.   

[Marcus Gideon]

Core pg 451, Augmentation

Besides their wireless functionality, almost all cyberware devices are equipped with a neural interface (not to be confused with DNI) that lets you mentally activate and control their functions.

Simply being part of your arm does not give you DNI control over the Commlink.

Also, the implanted Commlink is listed under the Headware category. That's why they are able to incorporate DNI and a Sim Module, b/c they were already in your head when they were implanting it. You're not going to get that same benefit from attaching it to your arm.