[Voran]

So i've been taking the time to reread all my SR 3 through 5 materials to remember the game world/setup and I realized there were some characterization things associated with some "Legendary Runner" chars (usually seen as the 'named runners used as jackpointers/etc in the books) that I wish get resolved in some ways.

No particular order:

Clockwork.  It might be surprising but I don't have any real issue with the conflict between him and  Netcat/Slammo/etc, or really mind about the 'he gets to be a colossal dick and his character shields protect him because the devs/writers need his mouth/angle for fluff'.  What oddly bothered me was apparently he can Deep Foundation dive and be superhacker on it.  I don't want him killed, but it'd be nice if he wasn't apparently Mary Sue tier uberskilled.

In a similar sense, Puck.  mr. no consequences for the shit I pull because I'm Righteous!.  Selfish asshat on the scale of no other, king of getting duped and not learning from it, instead making things worse.  If there was one char in the entire game series I'd want to get horribly consequenced, its Puck.  he's worse than a child rapist mass murderer who is always, "its not my fault for hooking up with Mecha-Hitler" or something.

Bull.  I like Bull in general.  I also get his hateboner for Harlequin. But what bugged me? His takeaway from the Denver stuff, where Harle fought Ghostwalker.  I don't get how Bull is all, "YEAH, Harle got his ass kicked. yeah!" as opposed to, "Holy Shit, this guy I have a massive hateboner for and talk shit about how I'm gonna get him....JUST SOLO FOUGHT A GREAT FRAGGIN DRAGON"

more as I finish up my re-reads.

[Marcus]

If two dinosaurs fight do you get upset about it?
Rest assured both are just plot monsters. Ghostwalker is just less warm fuzzy BiG D. Root for whomever you like better.

[Shinobi Killfist]

I haven’t liked the characters since 3e. And honestly it’s more late 2e where I my interest dropped off. They seemed more part of the setting back then instead of set pieces, preachy, or designers pet PCs .

[mcv]

Aren't they all uberskilled Mary Sues of a sort? (You could argue whether Mary Sue fits; it's about being an author insert in fan fiction to steal the limelight from the real protagonists. Actually, maybe they are Mary Sues.)

I see them mostly as vehicles to provide information and perspectives in confusing and impenetrable ways. They're not necessarily canon in my campaign.

[Abider]

The old characters had a more limited presence, they mostly just commented in the books.  Major events didn’t always include them.  You could go read the novels and have little if any Shadowland presence.  Sam Verner (Find Your Own Truth), Kyle Teller (Burning Bright), and Dirk Montgomery (House of the Sun) weren’t on Shadowland but were all front and center for major events of that era.  Now it seems like the Jackpoint crew are the only people in the world doing anything significant.  With the decrease in the number of novels and almost all at least having a Jackpoint cameo I think it would help broaden things if they had an occasional source book that wasn’t Jackpoint but some other Datahaven.

[Marcus]

Aren't they all uberskilled Mary Sues of a sort? (You could argue whether Mary Sue fits; it's about being an author insert in fan fiction to steal the limelight from the real protagonists. Actually, maybe they are Mary Sues.)

I see them mostly as vehicles to provide information and perspectives in confusing and impenetrable ways. They're not necessarily canon in my campaign.

Mostly of them street legends dating from 4e and 5e aren’t too bad. There are couple hold overs from the 2e days. But do think I should point out this is somewhat contradictory given that most have said they like 2nd best in terms of edition, and has to be story because the system was certainly not good as any more recent versions. 2nd is where most of the OP npc came in. Often inherited from/as links to the other game, a concept that no longer exist in a post freedonian aeronautics and space administration

Now it is worth noting we are going to have certain major npcs that can’t be avoided, the major dragons, the ceos, certain story npcs. But mostly 5e has kept it pretty reasonable. The street legend quality is op. But its easy to ignore if you don’t think it fits at your table. The street legends are generally good character examples. Calling them designer character is strange to me, they are made to be rep archetypes and concepts.

Certainly several of the major npcs from the seasons have been as strong or stronger then the street legends.

[Shinobi Killfist]

They came across as more Mary Sue like in 4e and 5e overall. 1-3e has fastjack and maybe neon samurai and some immortal types. But the majority of them didn’t read as more important than the pcs. More colleague level. 4e+ it seemed the setting revolves around them more than just being part of the setting.

Also I don’t think any edition has a edge on mechanics. They each have strengths and flaws.

[Tecumseh]

What I liked about Shadowland is that it was populated by a bunch of randos. Sure, you'd recognize names as you went through, and some of them were heavy hitters - like Laughing Man and the Orange Queen - but the rest of them were just some fragging guy. Or gal. I really liked that because it made it seem like the players were part of this big, broad (under)world with lots of voices.

I dislike the Jackpoint commentators because I don't want to hear from the same 20 people over and over again. It makes the world feel closed and insular, like there's this clique that you'll never break into. I want commentary from randos and anonymous posters who can share their own unique experiences, rather than the current approach where interesting things only happen to the same 20 people in the shadows.

[BeCareful]

I know that part of Tecumseh's problem is because JackPoint is an "Invitation Only" club sort of place, but I do admit, I like the idea more of random one-off people asking for clarification, rather than advice and arguing coming from a clique on high. Mainly because it sends the idea of, yeah, you're part of this big, underground network, rather than the major NPCs of editions past are having their fun in this one place you can never join. Not really any problem to me, but I get it.
Though, I never had any problem with canon NPCs being Better Than You At Everything. Mainly because they're never actually supposed to directly steal the spotlight from you, unless the GM has Damien Knight or Ghostwalker or someone personally show up and make fun of you. Then it's the GM's doing.

[Michael Chandra]

Upside of a limited cast is being able to actually develop personalities.

[Reaver]

Shadowland was a BBS... or Bulletin Board System for those who grew up with the internet (as this term predates the internet). That you needed to hack into to get into.... it was the ultimate case of you both had to know its LTG, and THEN you had to hack it!

When the matrix got reworked into the matrix 2.0 (which more closely resembles the internet we know and love today), the system had to change to reflect that.... And thus it became a "Facebook private page" where you could only get into if you were granted permission... (In theory you could hack it... and get to deal with IC based off the attack program that stopped a matrix destroying super virus -GOOD LUCK!)

So... yea. Fanpro dropped the ball meta wise there. They turned shadowland/jackpoint from a resource to an echo chamber

[Ghost Rigger]

So we all agree then? Shadowrun 4chan was better than Shadowrun Reddit.

[BeCareful]

Upside of a limited cast is being able to actually develop personalities.

That is true, and it's only natural that writers would want to write more about their previous one-offs, after wondering what they'd be like.

[Voran]

I do appreciate the notion of 'limit your chars to let them grow'.  I imagine its also hard to balance the "after a decade the same chars get a bit stale.." thing too.  Heh I do find it funny devgrrl is probably mid-heading-to-late-twenties now.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Upside of a limited cast is being able to actually develop personalities.

Which potentially could be a asset if you like them. Even then though I think the cons outweigh the benefits. Previously they had a handful of characters who were repeats like smiling bandit to develop characters but a pile of randos. Also the repeat characters didn’t feel like they were the ones handing setting changing stories.