NEWS

More new GM questions

  • 6 Replies
  • 1704 Views

dertechie

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 61
« on: <05-15-13/0306:55> »
I've now got a few sessions down with my group, having started in pretty much meatspace and the matrix and am now adding in magic as we go.  What I've noticed so far is that Spirits are potent.  Really potent.

First question is about Concealment, which can obviously affect players, but also functions to shield 'something people are looking for', which is incredibly vague.  Can it then shield a large Combat Drone?  A Vehicle?  The Space Needle that your target is trying to get to a meeting in?  I've been running it as covering living things and small objects/MacGuffins, but not large processed objects like drones or Bulldogs.

The second question is about spell targeting and things like Chameleon Suits.  If a Magician can't see someone because of a Chameleon Suit (say he has a Perception pool of 2), but knows they are there, can he see and target them with a spell with Astral Perception?


But the biggest question is how on earth do GMs manage the vastly differing amounts of Karma and Nuyen that different builds require?  My party has a Sam and a Hacker/Rigger, running alongside a Pure Adept and a Mage, and just for kicks the Van's currently the Rigger's responsibility, and it's in need of some mods.  Worse, since the runs so far have been street level jobs (and some of those were 'hooding' jobs at that), they've accumulated on the order of 20 Karma and 14k Nuyen.  After their current run is factored in, they're short. . . well, lets just say a giant pile of Nuyen at the standard 1:2500 ratio.  I'm just trying to figure out what I could even have them DO that would net that kind of Nuyen without the run outright killing them (especially since they may need to lie low just a bit after that run turned rather pyrotechnic).

Mantis

  • *
  • Omae
  • ***
  • Posts: 586
« Reply #1 on: <05-15-13/0351:34> »
Concealment does indeed work on non-living things like cars and such. An easy way to limit this power is to say it won't work on anything with a body more than twice that of the magic of critter using concealment. so to hide a bulldog van (Body 16), you would need at least a force 8 spirit. This is basically the same as the rule for the movement power. Of course, if someone used concealment on the Space Needle you would notice right away anyway plus the building is still there so it wouldn't work all that well. This power is intended more for things that can move rather than stationary objects that have an address. It is also very effective for use against the search power.

Astral Perception can only be used to target astral things, so unless that chameleon suited target is also astral, the magician can't target him. Keep in mind you can use edge to make long shot tests so even with a pool of 0, you can spend edge to roll your edge dice and still possibly succeed (exploding 6s). Also remember, even an pool of 2 dice can succeed if the chameleon suited dude had a crappy infiltration test. If he isn't hiding at all, the threshold to spot a guy in that situation is only a 1, so still possible. Chameleon suits aren't invisibility suits. You still need to make an effort to hide, they just make that effort more effective.

Managing karma/cash can be tricky. The 1:2500 rule of thumb is a good one to go by and if you aren't getting close to that for payouts, you need to bump up the cash people are getting paid. For things like snatch and grab I like to use a 10% rule, that is for the object or data or person being snatched, the Johnson will pay out 10% of its value to the runners. More than that and it stops being as profitable. So if the team is hired to snatch a new million nuyen bit of code, the Johnson will offer a max of about 100,000¥ (the team would negotiate up to this), with maybe 75,000 as the starting offer. This would be split between the team. For other jobs, like assassination, if it requires the whole team, then they better pay for the whole team. Today you can get someone offed for around 25,000 I think (someone tossed that number out before) so don't expect your runners to do it for 5000¥.
If you look at some of the Missions, they offer some pretty good payouts. SRM-01 offers 7000 per runner with a negotiation test adding 500 per net hit (max 6) to recover some guy hiding in the ork underground. This can end up being 10,000¥ with max hits, which isn't bad and there can frequently be chances to get extra cash (stealing gear and fencing it, counter offers from other parties, etc).
Ultimately, you just need to get a feel for it through experience. This will take knowing your players and their characters and who needs or wants what. The magician has his eye on a power focus? Well how many runs do you want him to do before he gets it? This will give you an idea of how much cash and karma to hand out. Samurai wants to upgrade his wired reflexes? When do you want him to do that? Well that tells you how much cash he needs. Adept looking to grab a new power and needs to bump up his magic? How soon would you like to see that in game?
Of course it is also a really good idea to ask the players how soon they would like these things and then, after they say right now, try to come to some reasonable compromise.
Remember good roleplaying can earn extra karma you may not have factored in and clever players may come up with revenue you weren't planning on but generally it isn't enough to upset things too much. So the mage got his focus one adventure sooner than you had planned? No big deal. He might get one adventure where he has more of an edge than usual but you can scale things pretty easy in this game to compensate, even on the fly.
Don't forget to factor in their lifestyles and other expenses (magical group dues, pirated software upkeep, etc) to their payouts as well. Starting out they will probably have low lifestyles and as they gain cash will want to upgrade (who wants to live in a slum if they have a choice?) to higher.
Hope this helps.

« Last Edit: <05-15-13/0541:32> by Mantis »

Michael Chandra

  • *
  • Catalyst Demo Team
  • Prime Runner
  • ***
  • Posts: 9922
  • Question-slicing ninja
« Reply #2 on: <05-15-13/0453:22> »
The SRM rewards are geared around being a one-time-per-month thing, so if you do multiple runs per month you'll want to make some adjustments, but they do offer nice numbers. They also have quick rules for getting information of contacts.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

pariah3j

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 90
« Reply #3 on: <05-15-13/1208:43> »
My old SR group back in the day was trying to save up for something(I don't remember what now) and it was expensive, so all of us needed to come up with X amount of nuyen ... so what our GM did was give us what appeared to be an easy job with about the amount of money we needed... at first we thought it was just him throwing us a bone, but instead it turned out as the next plot hook. The person we had been payed to extract was wanted by about 3 different Corps, gangs and someone else. We managed to finish the run and got the money but the fallout from it kept us busy while trying to do other jobs for several sessions after that. We stopped asking our GM for better payouts for a while after that  ;D

emsquared

  • *
  • Ace Runner
  • ****
  • Posts: 1029
  • Super Perfundo
« Reply #4 on: <05-15-13/1235:15> »
Worse, since the runs so far have been street level jobs (and some of those were 'hooding' jobs at that), they've accumulated on the order of 20 Karma and 14k Nuyen.  After their current run is factored in, they're short. . . well, lets just say a giant pile of Nuyen at the standard 1:2500 ratio.  I'm just trying to figure out what I could even have them DO that would net that kind of Nuyen without the run outright killing them (especially since they may need to lie low just a bit after that run turned rather pyrotechnic).
20 Karma and 14K per player across how many Runs? Let's assume it's in the 3 - 5 area. 5 Karma per run (like a legitimate Run, with meet, legwork, execution and aftermath) is about the minimum I'd give, depending on exactly what the "hooding" consisted of, I could see those being less (2 or 3 a pop?), but presumably they'd be able to do more of them per session and IG month. Anyway, if it's in the neighborhood of 4 Runs, that means your paying them on average 3.5K per Run - 4 players means it's 14K total per job on average. That doesn't sound all that bad for starting out, depending on the nature of the jobs and frequencey with which they're able to do them. 4, 14K jobs in a month is okay. 1 or 2, 14K jobs in a month is bad.

While some archetypes need more Karma than others to really excel, everybody loves Karma and can always use it. When you consider it takes 30 Karma (or more for Metahumans) to hard-max a primary stat (which a sammy is probably gonna have around 3) that was soft-maxed at Chargen, this means 100 Karma can go real quick and only add maybe 1 dice to 12 - 15 pools (depending on what stats and skills are set-up like). That's not all that much tangible advancement. And while some archetypes need more cred than others to excel, especially at the beginning, everybody loves cred and can always use it too. When you consider vehicles, and programs and 'link upgrades and upgrading 'ware all cost 10s of 1000s, nuyen goes real quick for just a few dice here and there. That said, 50K ea. (which would be what they'd had if you adhered religiously to the 1:2500) though sounds like a lot to me for ~4 initial runs, especially if you're starting at street-level. All that said, don't worry - the cred part is really easy to fix, have Johnson just loosen the purse strings a little bit, or let a side-mission pay data opportunity pop up during a Run. Real easy to inject more cred into the system legitimately, without your players being like "Where'd this come from?"

All4BigGuns

  • *
  • Prime Runner
  • *****
  • Posts: 7531
« Reply #5 on: <05-15-13/1315:03> »
Nuyen and karma rewards should be such that every other session (or possibly every third session) sees an advancement in a skill related to the character's specialty (for karma) and at least one implant (for nuyen) while still being able to buy at least two additional months of whatever lifestyle the character purchased at creation.
(SR5) Homebrew Archetypes

Tangled Currents (Persistent): 33 Karma, 60,000 nuyen

dertechie

  • *
  • Newb
  • *
  • Posts: 61
« Reply #6 on: <05-15-13/1420:07> »
Yeah, they've done Food Fight (and followed up the plot hook), sabotaged a small business at the edge of the Barrens, annihilated a (small) rival gang, and extracted a fellow and his family from a MCT community (not figured into the Karma and Nuyen yet).  Pay is at least ramping up, but they're going to have to lie low for a bit after the last one (the chase escape definitely made it onto the news, but won't linger long enough to award them bonus PA).

I also gave them some Karma with the direct instruction of "BP Chargen produces less than believable characters.  Let's go make these guys believable.", which I am not counting into the totals.