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Adept power: Increased Reflexes

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Tiamat

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« on: <10-01-10/1517:07> »
So, checking the levels for Adept powers, are they cumulative?

IE does rank 2 cost 2.5, or does it cost 3.5(rank 1 + rank2)

Critias

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« Reply #1 on: <10-01-10/1518:25> »
So, checking the levels for Adept powers, are they cumulative?

IE does rank 2 cost 2.5, or does it cost 3.5(rank 1 + rank2)
Rank 2 costs 2.5.  Total.

Casazil

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« Reply #2 on: <10-01-10/1754:09> »
The costs listed i the book per level are the total costs for the power and later in game if you start with level 1 you only pay 1 power point to level the power to level 2 as you only pay the difference between level 1 and level 2. Same goes for raiseing it to level 3 only from 2 to 3 is 1.5 power points.
"If at first you don't succeed blame someone else"
Joel "Casazil" Rogers
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http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/CasazilsShadowrun/

Kontact

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« Reply #3 on: <10-03-10/0113:51> »
Unfortunately, from the perspective of Power Point economy, you're still better off just buying a nice synaptic booster once you've made the nuyen to afford it.  Even just a standard lvl 2 Synaptic booster will replicate a 2.5 PP power at the cost of 1 essence, and therefore 1 magic, meaning 1 PP.  And it doesn't crap out on you when you walk into a murder scene.  Background count can be killer.

I can't think of any reason not to grab a bit of bioware, unless you're counting on a huge Initiation grade so your Centering skill will let you hose down waves of people with High Velocity weapons.  Then you need to keep your magic juiced, but even then, 1 point probably won't break you, and the PPs freed up can keep you growing.

Bradd

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« Reply #4 on: <10-03-10/0330:36> »
I personally like to save even more Power/Essence and use Jazz for reflexes, with occasional use of Edge to get a 3rd IP.

Glyph

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« Reply #5 on: <10-03-10/0442:50> »
The two areas where adept powers really don't compete with bioware are initiative enhancements and Attribute augmentation, making synaptic boosters and muscle toner a great buy.  At character generation, they can also be an expensive choice, since you need to buy up your Magic only to have it lowered by the 'ware, and buy the 'ware itself, which is expensive (especially the synaptic boosters).  But the game rewards high specialization/dice pools and multiple initiative passes, so even if it seems expensive solely by the build point cost, it is still often an extremely effective  choice.

The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #6 on: <10-03-10/0845:01> »
Short term, anyway.
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."

Walks Through Walls

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« Reply #7 on: <10-03-10/0917:15> »
From a gamming power point of view it is a way to increase your abilities, but personally I feel that the story behind the character and why he did what he did to get here let alone where he is going is just as important if not more so. Which is why I feel that a lot of magic people wouldn't turn to cyberware or bioware for that edge, but again it depends on the person and character
"Walking through walls isn't tough..... if you know where the doors are."
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Mäx

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« Reply #8 on: <10-04-10/0158:50> »
I don't know, i have noticed you can make pretty intresting builds by going adept and getting Increased Reflexes 2 and then getting 2-3 essence worth of ware that now doesn't need to include an expensive iniative booster(MBW and WR cost a ton of essence and SB cost a lot of money).
Now i have a wared up character who has 3IP:s and instead of needing a ton of money to get more, only need to raise magic twice to get fourth IP(once if i saved the .5 points from chargen)
Or if i only took 2 essence worth of ware, then i can grap that last level of IR in chargen and most likely be the fastest guy in the team with my 4 IP:s(well the mage might have 4 IP:s too, when he has his spell on)
"An it harm none, do what you will"

Kontact

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« Reply #9 on: <10-04-10/0733:49> »
Again, it has a lot to do with how prevalent Background Count is in your game.  Technically, a GM could, and probably should, throw BC at you in the barrens, industrial areas devoid of plant life (like a zero zone or blacksite lab,) the scene of recent murders (like that guy you just gacked,) and lots of other not-so-friendly places where shadowrunners routinely travel.

If you're losing 1-2 magic most all the time, that could cost you your 4th IP pretty easily.  Essential things like high agility and multiple IPs aren't the kind of thing to shed when you need them the most.

If your GM lets you do stuff like take PPs as Metamagics and buy an additional Metamagic per Initiate grade, then, hell yeah, go magic ninja all the way.  If a PP costs 9-15 karma, it's golden, but, if you're not playing with those optional rules, buy some muscles and get that booster.  ~30+ karma for your next PP is no kind of bargain.

Mäx

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« Reply #10 on: <10-04-10/0804:19> »
If your GM lets you do stuff like take PPs as Metamagics and buy an additional Metamagic per Initiate grade, then, hell yeah, go magic ninja all the way.  If a PP costs 9-15 karma, it's golden, but, if you're not playing with those optional rules, buy some muscles and get that booster.  ~30+ karma for your next PP is no kind of bargain.
Synaptic booster 3 at 240k, it isn't exacty cheap either especially if you need it at alpha or beta grade to not loose a magic point, thats almos half a million or million nuyn for that fourth iP.
"An it harm none, do what you will"

Welshman

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« Reply #11 on: <10-04-10/1248:25> »
From a gamming power point of view it is a way to increase your abilities, but personally I feel that the story behind the character and why he did what he did to get here let alone where he is going is just as important if not more so. Which is why I feel that a lot of magic people wouldn't turn to cyberware or bioware for that edge, but again it depends on the person and character

If magic comes first, I can see your points very well. That said, this is a high tech world the runners live in and body mods are fairly common, while Magic doesn't always manifest itself right away.

Back in the ancient days of 2nd I had a chance to play out just this kind of concept. I'd started a character that was what I called a "Combat Decker". He was an ex-corp decker who specialized in tracking hostile deckers down and then taking them out in the physical world. He had a reasonable amount of cyberware to support his job.  In a run gone bad he got "mostly" eaten by group of cannibalistic orks. The GM and I agreed that in his current incarnation he just wasn't a viable PC anymore (he survived barely but was very messed up) and we shelved him.

Then the 1st Ed Grimoire and Physical Adepts came out. Being a Japanese based character with connections back in Japan we devised a story. In short his comatose body got shipped back home. They put him back together with some cutting edge tech and a lot of surgery. During his long recovery, which occurred in a Shinto monastery, he discovered latent awakened gifts. Apparently the trauma of nearly dying brought out the gifts. So about a year game time after he 'died', he came back into the party as a sword wielding physical adept who carried a small amount of top line cyberware that sped him up and also helped him still be a good shot with his sniper rifle.

So as you can see, magic and tech can be explained pretty easily, it's just a matter of perspective.

Best,
WM
The Welshman
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Qemuel

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« Reply #12 on: <10-04-10/1557:37> »
I love those types of stories.  Recently did something like that with an old player of mine.


His original character concept from way back in first edition was a Decker.  The character always wanted to be a mage and was fascinated by magic and all things arcane but never had the "gift".  He was, however, very good with computers and programming, so he made his persona in the Matrix that of a mage, complete with wizard hat and robe.  All his attack programs were coded as spells.  His name was Merlyn, The Magician of the Matrix.

The team consisted of a real mage (Trinity) and a Street Samurai type (Wings) who had cyber-wings installed (modeled after Archangel from Marvel comics, except not blue skinned) which allowed him to glide, but not actually fly (he had an upper floor apartment in a high rise in Seattle).  Merlyn was probably cybered MORE than the Street Sammy...  I think he had .2 ESSENCE left with all his upgrades over the years.

Anyway, fast forward to today.  We've picked up the SR4A edition and have created new characters to run with.  However, I'm in the process of also updating all the original characters to use as NPCs.  Meryln was caught in the Crash of '62 and survived.  He also was the richest team member (always skimming a bit off the top of every run).  After the Crash, Merlyn felt the need to get himself out of sight, out of mind, and he needed some MAJOR upgrades, because as technology advanced, so did his desire to acquire it.  He wanted a complete transformation, so he decided to start completely over... to put his body back to baseline health and start from scratch!  Using a great portion of his wealth, Merlyn underwent three major treatments:  Age Rejuvenation, Augmented Healing, and Revitalization.  His intention was to remove all his old cyberware and restore his natural body in order to eventually upgrade EVERYTHING inside him by replacing all his old stuff with the height of current technology and quality.

To better prepare his body, he underwent the Leónization process first.  This would give his aging body a much greater capacity to heal for the upcoming surgeries.  The process worked flawlessly and he came out looking and feeling like he did when he was 21 years old.  Next, he had all his old, dated cyberware systems removed and immediately began the Augmented Healing process which would regenerate his meat body to full health and ability.  He noted how strange it was existing with no cyberware after having been 'enhanced' for the majority of his life.  In some ways it was liberating being fully human once again.  Still he felt empty and cut-off from the Matrix he knew and loved, so as he began the last phase of his plan, the first thing he did was buy the top-of-the line Fairlight Caliban comlink with Simsense and Nanopaste Trodes, and then commenced the process of upgrading it himself and writing software for it.  At least this would give him something to do during the long months of the Revitalization process.

This is where everything got really weird!

Normally, Resonance/Magic cannot be restored using Revitalization, but as Merlyn's Essence slowly returned, he found that he was gaining even greater insights and abilities in the Matrix.  Chocking it up to becoming a "whole person" once again, he gave little more thought about it until one day months later (after spending a few hours dealing with his affairs in the Matrix, visiting old friends, and doing some "general exploring") he looked down to find that his comlink had been off the entire time!!!  He had been in full VR for hours without a comlink, simsense, or trodes!  Upon this realization, his abilities flared to even greater heights and his vision opened into a deep, deep resonance level.  He had just immediately and spontaneously undergone SUBMERSION (the Technomancer's version of Initiation)!!

So now, unbeknownst to anyone but himself, Merlyn is actually a Technomancer, a ghost in the machine, a master of the Matrix.  Trinity, Wings, and the rest of the gang as well as his children do not yet realize this, as he has become more of a hermit/recluse and usually stays in contact with them through the Matrix rather than face-to-face (he's become slightly more paranoid as time goes by and is still exploring the extent of his new found abilities, so enjoys his physical solitude).  He wears a digital mask that shows him as his 'old' self when communicating with his old friends and family, but he is quickly creating a new persona and name for himself with the younger generation, too, now.  What he likes most, though, is how the power sings through his very soul bringing him as close to a real mage as he has ever been before in his life!

Kontact

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« Reply #13 on: <10-04-10/2129:07> »
If your GM lets you do stuff like take PPs as Metamagics and buy an additional Metamagic per Initiate grade, then, hell yeah, go magic ninja all the way.  If a PP costs 9-15 karma, it's golden, but, if you're not playing with those optional rules, buy some muscles and get that booster.  ~30+ karma for your next PP is no kind of bargain.
Synaptic booster 3 at 240k, it isn't exacty cheap either especially if you need it at alpha or beta grade to not loose a magic point, thats almos half a million or million nuyn for that fourth iP.

As has been pointed out elsewhere, the pure physad is the least Nuyen-hungy build in existence.  And, unless you're counting on Power Throw 6 to make your guy the best ninja ever, it might just be worth it to drop two points of magic, knock that Power throw down to 4, and simultaneously free up 2.5PPs and .5 essence; all by getting the SB3 instead of using the IR3 power.  That .5 essence can easily fit a R3 Attention Coprocessor and lvl 2 Reaction Enhancers.  Or, if you're swimming in cash, R2 delta-grade Muscle replacement is only another 100k.  That right there is almost enough to directly compensate for the loss of the two DV from the Power Throw, plus it adds 2 more dice to a lot of very useful skills.  Use one of the freed up PPs to take Missile Mastery, and you've got your DV right back up, with 1.5 PP left to spend.

Breaking it down:
Pure m6e6 physad - Power Throw 6 [1.5 PP] + Increased Reflexes III [4 PP] = total 5.5 PP +6DV thrown +3 Rea +3 IP [0.5 PP not spent]
Modified m4e4 physad - Power Throw 4 [1 PP] + Missile Mastery [1 PP] + Synaptic Booster 3 (std) + Muscle Replacement 2 (delta) = total 2.0 PP + 6DV thrown {+ 3 Rea + 3 IP + 2 Agl +2 Str (factored into DV)} <-all of which are immune to BC. [2 PP not spent]  cost 340,000¥
« Last Edit: <10-04-10/2313:36> by Kontact »

KarmaInferno

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« Reply #14 on: <10-04-10/2215:56> »
There's also having a Increase Reflexes spell thrown into a sustaining focus.

Costs no essense OR magic.


-k