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Couple of Questions

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snowcrash

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« on: <11-11-10/0827:12> »
Just a couple of questions, got the 20th Anniversary corebook last week and have one or two questions:

1)Initiative passes: I know the general theory but would a character with two initiative passes get a normal turn and then another turn before the next round or would it be another two simple actions resolved beforer the next round? basically is it possible to move in a second init pass? also for SA weapons fired in the second init pass does the recoil modifier get cumulatively bigger?

2)It says running is a free action I assume that walking is also a free action but doesn't incur the penalties associated with it?

Sonarean

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« Reply #1 on: <11-11-10/0911:00> »
Quote
1)Initiative passes: I know the general theory but would a character with two initiative passes get a normal turn and then another turn before the next round or would it be another two simple actions resolved beforer the next round? basically is it possible to move in a second init pass? also for SA weapons fired in the second init pass does the recoil modifier get cumulatively bigger?

You would get two full turns within a single combat round. 
Movement, however, takes place over the entire combat round.  So while you continue moving during the second pass, you still can't exceed your total movement rate.  (though looking back over this, I may have misread the rules on this)
The recoil modifier from one pass to another does not carry over.

Quote
2)It says running is a free action I assume that walking is also a free action but doesn't incur the penalties associated with it?

You are correct.

Chaemera

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« Reply #2 on: <11-11-10/1705:59> »
Quote
2)It says running is a free action I assume that walking is also a free action but doesn't incur the penalties associated with it?

You are correct.

It's actually better than a free action.

Quote from:  SR4A, pg. 148, Movement
To walk or run, the character must declare it during the Declare Actions part of his Action Phase. Walking does not take up any action, but running requires a Free Action.
Emphasis mine.

Reason this matters? You only get one Free Action per initiative pass (assuming you don't trade in a Simple Action or two for extra Free Actions).

Quote from:  SR4A, pg. 144, A. Declare Actions
The acting character declares his actions for the Action Phase. He may take two Simple Actions or one Complex Action. ...
The character may also declare one Free Action during either this Action Phase or on any subsequent Action Phases in the Combat Turn.

Quote from:  SR4A, pg. 147, Simple Actions
During his Action Phase, a character may take up to two Simple Actions or one Complex Action. An extra Free Action may be taken in place of a Simple Action (so the character would get two Free Actions and one Simple Action, or three Free Actions, instead of one Free and two Simple Actions).
Emphasis in the original.

Example: In one initiative pass, Sammie the Samurai does the following:
Walk (no action) away from the Knight Errant, giving him the middle finger (Gesture, Free Action) while aiming her Ares Predator at his crotch (Call a Shot, Free Action) before firing (Fire Weapon, Simple Action). This uses up all her actions while letting her move farther from the officer.

The KE Officer, after being shot at, decides to run (Free Action) away, down the street, while yelling into his commlink for back up (Speak/Text Phrase, Free Action). Now, he has a single Simple Action to decide what to do with, possibly Drop Prone (Free Action) behind a convenient dumpster in the nearest alley.

Mind you, in both of my examples, the characters trade in one of their simple actions for an extra free action.
SR20A Limited Edition # 124
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snowcrash

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« Reply #3 on: <11-11-10/1850:23> »
Ahhh missed that bit about walking being beter than a free action. What would happen if the sammie had a second init pass?

Chaemera

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« Reply #4 on: <11-11-10/1932:48> »
Example for Sammie with 2 IP
Sammie.IP = 2
KE Officer.IP = 1
Sammie.Metatype = KE Officer.Metatype = Human
Per SR4A, pg. 149, Movement Table
Human.Walk == 10 meters/turn
Human.Run == 25 meters/turn

Quote from:  SR4A, pg. 149, Movement Rate
     The movement rates for each metatype are noted on the Movement Table. This rate is the distance the character moves by that method per Combat Turn )not per Initiative Pass).
     If a character mixed his modes of movement during a Combat Turn and it becomes important to know exactly how far the character moved in a particular pass, simply divide his Movement Rate by the number of passes in that turn.

At my table, we interpret that second sentence by placing markers for where your character will have moved on each subsequent IP (if they don't actually act) and move the mini on that character's initiative count.

Example: In one first initiative pass, Sammie the Samurai does the following:
Walk (no action, up to 5 meters (half walking speed)) away from the Knight Errant, giving him the middle finger (Gesture, Free Action) while aiming her Ares Predator at his crotch (Call a Shot, Free Action) before firing (Fire Weapon, Simple Action). This uses up all her actions while letting her move farther from the officer.

The KE Officer, after being shot at, decides to run (Free Action, up to 13 meters (half running speed, next IP will be 12)) away, down the street, while yelling into his commlink for back up (Speak/Text Phrase, Free Action). Now, he has a single Simple Action to decide what to do with, possibly Drop Prone (Free Action) behind a convenient dumpster in the nearest alley. For this example, the dumpster is 20 meters from his original starting position. Note, he has one free action remaining, since he used the equivalent of two simple actions this IP.

Second IP
Sammie the Samurai, with her second initiative pass decides that she'd rather finish the officer off before his backup arrive, Walks (no action, up to 5 meters) back towards the officer, and Takes Aim (Simple Action) at him before using Fire Weapon to hopefully put him down before he gets to the dumpster.

On his IP, though he doesn't have actions, the KE Officer finishes his Run (up to 12 meters), getting his ass behind the dumpster, and may use that remaining free action to drop prone behind it. He could not have used a simple action for any purpose, since he didn't actually "act" on this IP.
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snowcrash

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« Reply #5 on: <11-13-10/1001:29> »
Right! I'm starting to get this. What about running? if a character with multiple initiative passes opts to run, the run distance is split across the passes, does the character still have to give up an action each pass to continue running? and what would happen if they opted to stop running? (this is explained vaguely on pg. 149 but doesn't say anything about the actions used for running over multiple IPs) or does all movement have to be declared at the Declare Actions phase?

The_Gun_Nut

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« Reply #6 on: <11-13-10/1252:47> »
If the KE cop doesn't have an IP, he doesn't have any free actions, since he gets those on a per action phase basis.

Ahhh missed that bit about walking being beter than a free action. What would happen if the sammie had a second init pass?
Whaddaya mean IF?
There is no overkill.

Only "Open fire" and "I need to reload."

Chaemera

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« Reply #7 on: <11-13-10/1350:19> »
The following Q&A gets into how you play at your table, from my reading, there are multiple legit interpretations. So I can only offer how we play it at my table. You're GM is free to disagree and be correct.

if a character with multiple initiative passes opts to run, the run distance is split across the passes, does the character still have to give up an action each pass to continue running?

Since movement is defined in terms of meters/round, I have always treated it as a single free action to run for the round.

and what would happen if they opted to stop running? (this is explained vaguely on pg. 149 but doesn't say anything about the actions used for running over multiple IPs) or does all movement have to be declared at the Declare Actions phase?

A person with multiple IPs decides, each IP what movement mode they're going to use, and how far they'll travel on that IP. If there are more IPs in the round than the character has, on their last IP, they determine, based on their current movement rate, how much farther they intend to go, up to the maximum distance remaining for that movement rate.

in a 5 IP round, a human has the following:

Walk/IP: 2 meters
Run/IP: 5 meters

So if Sammie the Samurai has 3 IP, she can do the following:

1st IP: Walk (up to 2 meters)
2nd IP: Run, using a free acction (up to 5 meters)
3rd IP: Keep running, no additional action required (up to 5 meters)
4th & 5th IP: at the end of the 3rd IP, Sammie the Samurai would have to decide how much farther she wants to run, up to 5 meters each IP, but is considered "running" for all DP related purposes until her next IP (in the next Combat Turn).

I base this interpretation off of the following:

Quote from: SR4A, pg. 148, Movement
     Once a mode of movement has been declared, the character moves in that mode until his next Action Phase. A character continues to move in the last mode he chose during passes in which he does not have an action. This means a character with only one action, for example, who chooses to walk or run in the first Initiative Pass will be walking or running the same throughout subsequent Initiative Passes. The movement mode can only be changed when the character acts again.

and

Quote from:  SR4A, pg. 149, Movement Rate
     The movement rates for each metatype are noted on the Movement Table. This rate is the distance the character moves by that method per Combat Turn (not per Initiative Pass).
     If a character mixed his modes of movement during a Combat Turn and it becomes important to know exactly how far the character moved in a particular pass, simply divide his Movement Rate by the number of passes in that turn.
SR20A Limited Edition # 124
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