Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: viaRailGun on <04-04-13/0519:29>

Title: my 1st chummer
Post by: viaRailGun on <04-04-13/0519:29>
after about a week of homework, i came up with this KARMA build(750)

+'s =70karma
way of the warrior
(up to 3 martial arts styles)

-'s =70karma
sensitive system
geas(improved reflexes)
geas(critical strike)

attributes =425karma
bod 4
agi 6(8)
rea 5(8)
str 3(5)
cha 3
int 4
log 4
wil 3
edg 2
mag 4

martial arts maneuvers:
(any suggestions? prefferably ones that'll take the +DV bonus of critical strike)

adept powers =4PP
improved reflexes3 way/geas
combat sense2
critical strike4 way/geas
counter strike

bioware only! =1.0ESS
enhanced articulation (secondhand)
muscle augmentation2 (alpha)
muscle toner 2 (alpha)

active skills =243karma (*all skills at 4 except either pistols/unarmed at 6)
pistols* (semi-automatics)
unarmed* (martial arts?subdual?block?)
infiltration (urban)
perception (visual)
shadowing (tail evasion)
chemistry (compounds)
demolitions (plastic explosives)

knowledge/language =24karma
english N
sperethiel 1(speak)
japanese 1
sports 2
chemistry 1
engineering 1(chemecial)
military 1
combat tactics 2(guerilla)

gear =37karma/92,500NY (includes bioware)
low lifestyle 3months
armor jacket (mods?)
2x ares viper iv
    -quickdraw holsters
    -90rounds reg,
    -4spare clips
vision/audio enhancers
assorted fake licenses (do i really need ones for bioware?) "huh,augmentation licenses officer? thanks but, i work out" :)

contacts/enemies =???karma(how much should i spend here?)

21karma remaining

now i need contacts, and want martial arts maneuvers as well. should i sacrifice some skills(i.e. chem., demo., specializations)? or wait until post-gen to build that area? i'm kinda deadset on initiating asap(3-4runs?), and ideally want to focus on initiation/magic improvements(i love those PP!).

so tell me, am i doing it right?
Title: Re: my 1st chummer
Post by: mtfeeney = Baron on <04-04-13/0612:39>
Maybe drop int and log to 3, increase bod and mag to 5.
Title: Re: my 1st chummer
Post by: emsquared on <04-04-13/1126:50>
Definitely drop your LOG to 3 bump your BOD to 5.

Do not try and raise your MAG to 5, as you'll be paying for a hard-maxed MAG with your ESS loss and this is just a bad idea.

You appear to be focusing on melee combat with your Powers, so go with your Unarmed Skill at 6.

You really don't need Improved Reflexes 3, stick with 2 for now - you'll do fine.

I'd recommend taking a Geas on all of your Powers, you've already done it for the critical ones - might as well go whole-hog.

Unless your GM allows it, you can't buy Alphaware at Chargen. Which means you'd have no reason to take that second-hand 'ware. Maybe a Reflex Recorder or two would interest you? Or Genetic Optimization?

As for contacts, you might want a good Cyber-doc contact, because you're probably going to be getting a lot of work done in the future - upgrading to alpha, beta, deltaware, getting new 'ware, etc. And since you don't have any particular leg-working skills per se (though Infiltration and Shadowing may be useful in certain circumstances) maybe some sort of well-connected info broker? Or, I dunno, personally I always like the well-connected Shark Lawyer.

If you're looking to scrounge up more bits of Karma, the Specializations aren't a bad place to start. Also, lowering your Perception, Chemistry or Demolition probably wouldn't be any great detriment to you.
Title: Re: my 1st chummer
Post by: mtfeeney = Baron on <04-04-13/1147:47>
SR4A, p.313.  "Only standard and alphaware may be purchased at character creation."
Title: Re: my 1st chummer
Post by: emsquared on <04-04-13/1204:54>
SR4A, p.313.  "Only standard and alphaware may be purchased at character creation."
Oops, yeah, SR4A p.72 was what I was thinking of and even it is just referring to beta and delta I see now.

Well, I realize it's probably (hopefully) a money thing, but it's really silly to get 2nd-hand as an Adept. You're wasting ESS/MAG and that's just poor policy. You really can't scrounge up the 15K? And it's not so much because you can do anything right now with the ESS, but just opens you up to being able to do more down the road, without upgrading 2 bits.

But really, you're gonna have to upgrade that Enhanced Articulation anyway to do anything that's not Deltaware with the remaining ESS, so forget it. Just upgrade that Enhanced Artic to Alpha, once you have the 60K and that would give you room for a Reflex Recorder.
Title: Re: my 1st chummer
Post by: viaRailGun on <04-04-13/1346:53>
thanks all of you!

k, so, revision like this

martial arts styles:
more homework to do

i'm already at my max -35BP worth of -'s, so stick at two

drop LOG to 3
raise BOD to 5

remove specializations and
drop perc., chem., demo. to 3

bioware: haha! you got me thinking min/max
drop enhanced articulation
augmentoner2 (alpha) thanks mtfeeney!

contacts =36karma
dr. melthorpe C4/L5
renescoe the provider C6/L3

adept abilities
improved reflexes 2 w/g
combat sense 2
critical strike 4 w/g
counter strike 1
penetrating strike 3

i'm left with 10karma? martial arts maneuvers anyone? finishing move, multi strike, set-up, throw? i've asked before but to no avail, does: unarmed combat(+2martial arts) apply only when "attacking" using his known martial arts styles? i.e. not when "blocking" using said styles, or "subduing"
Title: Re: my 1st chummer
Post by: UmaroVI on <04-04-13/1352:31>
What exactly is covered by that specialization is very fuzzy. The rules indicate you have to describe how your martial art helps you, but as combat is very abstract this is basically magic tea party.

Styles: You want +3 Unarmed DV from your styles. There are several that grant it so pick whichever you like for fluff purposes.

Manuevers: depends how your GM thinks the rules work. Can you use Two Weapon Style with a bare hand and an offhand Shock Glove/Hardliner Glove?

If so, you want Two-Weapon Style. If not, you want Kick Attack. Either way, optionally, any of the following: Watchful Guard, Finishing Blow, Full Offense. Most manuevers are very meh and not worth it, and many are generally counterproductive like Set Up.
Title: Re: my 1st chummer
Post by: viaRailGun on <04-04-13/1401:58>
when you say "adept powers focused on melee" is there any other combat option for adepts?...

and if i went standard synthcard3, that 0.06 free essence would look like an inviting light down a dark road.

Title: Re: my 1st chummer
Post by: emsquared on <04-04-13/1405:08>
i'm already at my max -35BP worth of -'s, so stick at two
Oh, you're doing the actual Neg Quality, somehow missed that... ask your GM if you can use the Optional Rule for Adepts and Geasa (SM, p. 31 - bottom left-hand column of the black box), which I suspect you are already doing in reducing PP cost, it's just that Chummer has mislead you/you didn't actually look up the Neg Quality. You don't get BP (so you'll have to find other Neg Quals) but you do get 25% reduced PP cost to anything you put under Geasa. Under the optional rule you can put just one power under a Geas (and only get 25% off of it) or you can put all of your Powers under a Geas(and get 25% off of them all), or anything in between.

And actually, as a Neg Quality, all of your Powers are under both Geasa (SM, p.27 - Paragraph 2, Sentence 2, "A geas must be something that affects all of an Awakened character’s magical abilities"), not just Improved Reflexes and Critical Strike. i.e. you're presently doing it wrong. Presently, you have to choose from the Geas Types (Condition, Gesture, Incantation, Talisman, etc.) which you must meet at all times for all Powers, otherwise you lose 1 MAG until fullfilled.
Title: Re: my 1st chummer
Post by: viaRailGun on <04-04-13/1419:31>
so specializing requires a bit of roleplaying, great that's why we're here.

is there a +DV cap?

as for 1/2 a pair of shock gloves in unarmed? lolz, i like to think the gloves have a +/- charge, sorta like a circuit.

do you mean maneuvers not being worth the interrupt?

i'll do more homework on the whole geas bit
Title: Re: my 1st chummer
Post by: UmaroVI on <04-04-13/1514:04>
A lot of manuevers are just crappy. The ones I listed are some of the better ones.

The +DV cap from martial arts styles is +3.

The thing with the shock glove is really about whether it allows you to use the Two Weapon Style manuever while using bare hands. Due to the wording, you arguably need to have a weapon like Hardliner Gloves in your offhand to qualify?

Title: Re: my 1st chummer
Post by: Glyph on <04-04-13/2256:42>
If your GM allows gloves to count as weapons for purposes of two-weapon style (and lets you use critical strike in conjunction with them), then it is a no-brainer.  Otherwise, good ones are finishing move and riposte (both allow out-of-sequence melee attacks - basically, you are going before you normally would, which is nearly always a good thing), herding (potentially very useful, depending on how big a part tactics play in your game - being able to control an opponent's movement can either be crucial, or not matter much), and sweep (which lets you add damage to a type of attack that normally doesn't do damage).

On specializations, remember that with karmagen, they cost the same before or after karmagen.  So unlike BP character creation, there is no reason to shy away from them purely for reasons of cost-effectiveness.
Title: Re: my 1st chummer
Post by: viaRailGun on <04-04-13/2306:06>
thanks for the addition guys, this is great material. martial adept, well underway!
Title: Re: my 1st chummer
Post by: UmaroVI on <04-05-13/0718:03>
OK, Herding is pretty situational but of the "instead of doing damage, X" ones, I think it is the best since it's so open, and the one time you herd a tank into a ditch it will be worth the 4 karma.

Sweep I am meh about, but at least if you know the manuever you can tack it onto all your attacks "for free," so you aren't sacrificing anything for it.

If you can't Two-Weapon Style, Kick Attack is a no brainer as it's 4 karma for +1 to hit that you can also make -1 to be hit.

Title: Re: my 1st chummer
Post by: viaRailGun on <04-05-13/1446:10>
an adept with counterstrike, riposte, setup, finishing move, and 3 IP,who has not yet acted this initiative pass,:

-1st pass:
-successfully "blocks" a melee attack; counterstrike adds it's level plus any net hits to next melee attack roll, also triggers riposte(optional) burning his next available action(1st IP).
-immediately attacks using set-up(with extra dice from counterstrike), adding any net hits to next melee attack(dice pool modifier's getting bigger).

now after using riposte(using my 1st IP), can i still use finishing move(using my 2nd IP) in the 1st pass, or must i wait for the 2nd pass to use my 2nd IP(i.e. 1 IP/pass)?

to answer my own question, no. IPs don't personally belong to characters. it's more like an initiative pass is shared by anyone with that many IPs.

am i in, over my head?
Title: Re: my 1st chummer
Post by: UmaroVI on <04-05-13/1635:05>
That's a perfect example of why you shouldn't use Set-up. You'd be better off simply hitting your opponent. For one thing, Set-up is your attack so it eats the Counterstrike bonus. Second, even if you get a bigger bonus from Set-up, it's probably not enough bigger to offset the penalty your opponent would have gotten as a Wound Modifier if you hit them instead. Third, you might just knock your opponent out anyways.
Title: Re: my 1st chummer
Post by: viaRailGun on <04-05-13/1703:45>
ya, i didn't realize you'd be re-rolling those net hits from counterstrike. so then forget riposte/set-up.

i saw something about a "ROUNDHOUSE!", kick+multi-strike really. i know m-s gives +1 before the split, but does the reach mod of kick apply before/after split? i think after. and when splitting a DP, must they be split evenly? or can one half be bigger than the other?

any opinions on the adept power "nerve-strike"?
Title: Re: my 1st chummer
Post by: UmaroVI on <04-05-13/1906:23>
Nerve strike has some uses for very niche character types, maybe perhaps. You don't want it on a primary combatant.

Dice pool splitting is odd because it's unclear what is a modifier and thus what applies after the split or before the split. They can definitely be split unevenly, though.