Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: quinthalas on <08-04-14/1938:19>
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So I would like to make a character that can infiltrate, can assassinate, and be a face. I was thinking some type of either adept or street samurai, but I am wondering which way would be the best to go. I am not opposed to any races but I think elf may be best for what I want, I don't want to initially go too crazy with cybernetics because later I would like to get the really good stuff and more of it since it costs less essence, any tips or help would greatly be appreciated.
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This is pretty much my favorite type of PC to play (face adept/sammy). There's two ways I'd recommend going about it, either go for the long game with a lightly-augmented elf adept (probably the best synergy in the game for a build like this, but may not be able to afford the 'ware @ start), or go for more "out-of-the-gate" power and go with a lightly-augmented human adept.
Facial Sculpt is priceless for the social-infiltrator side of an assassin, just as priceless as some rating 2 (and eventually rating 4, delta) Muscle Toner is for the shooty side of the assassin. When you get to buying 'ware (@ chargen or in play if you can't make the nuyen happen at the start) the rest of the ~ 1.0 ESS you'll want to dedicate to 'ware, you could do Tailored Pheromones rating 2, and either a couple Reflex Recorders or rating 1 (someday 2) Cerebral Booster to help out your electronics B&E stuff? Other Powers would go toward boosting initiative, augmenting your skills, combat reflexes, etc. You could consider First Impression as a Quality to help you out.
Here's a link to the Face/Sammy Adept I built once I got ahold of the 5E chargen rules. Not sayin' he's great or even good (haven't looked at him in over a year, and I notice he doesn't have Facial Sculpt), but the thread might help you out:
http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=11941.0
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Would you say its good to do both adept and sammy or pick one from an optimization standpoint? We have a rather small group so I am trying to get as many rolls covered as possible thats why the build is attractive and they all seem to mesh into an interesting character as well.
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From an optimization standpoint, it's definitely worth it to lose a point in ESS/MAG and take some 'ware. You simply cannot get the same amount of dice wringed out of that Power Point\MAG with the right ware purchases. By the same token, there are awesome things Powers can do that 'ware just can't. Gotta take the best from both worlds and not sweat the small change. This build approach also gives you good mechanical progression options whether youre rolling in loot or karma.
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So basically you want a character who can charm a target into lowering their guard and into a position for an easy kill?
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:o Honestly I smell nothing but troll from this thread. But I'm not really sure where its coming from. :o
Best of luck to you all.
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:o Honestly I smell nothing but troll from this thread. But I'm not really sure where its coming from. :o
Best of luck to you all.
Why not just give your input or response in a non-confrontational manner if it's contrary to what's already been said?
There's a person asking for help, if you think you can be of help, why wouldn't you do that?
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Infiltrate, Assassinate, Face...................... Hello, My name is Bond, James Bond.
Elf would be nice for the Agi/Cha boost but really, for the higher Edge & ability to blend in with crowds. I'd have to say Human.
Skills will be big priority IMHO to cover all that is needed.
Maybe.
A-Skills
B-Attr
C-PhysAdept
D-Cash
E-Human
Yes, I'm aware this means he doesn't have full Magic points.
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Well this being my 2nd shadowrun character and my 1st of 5th edition I was thinking I should stick to either adept or sammy, more leaning toward sammy since I can be a caster in just about any game. Totally open to the idea of whatever race, more leaning toward female sneak in/talk my way in, steal what I need and stun/kill who I need to when required to get the job done.
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Adepts are not exactly 'casters' and they fit your concept really well. Here's an example, a female troll face adept:
A - Meta (Troll 5)
B - Skills
C - Resources
D - Magic (Adept 2)
E - Attributes
Agility 3 (4)
Charisma 4
Body 5
Intuition 3
Reaction 2 (5)
Logic 2 (bought with karma)
Strength 5
Willpower 5
Essence 5
Magic 6 (5)
Edge2
Initiative 8+4d6
Skills
Acting skill group 5
Negotiation (bargain) 6
(Etiquette (security) 4 (6)
Longarms (sporting rifles) 6 (8.)
Pistols (SA) 4 (6)
Sneaking (urban) 3 (5)
Intimidation (physical) 3 (5)
Perception (visual) 3 (5)
Drive ground vehicle 1 (2 karma)
Arcana 1 (2 karma)
10 points for Knowledge skills & languages
12 points for Contacts
Qualities
First impression 11
Raven mentor spirit 5 (+2 dice to all con tests and some powers).
Negative qualities are up to you.
Adept powers:
Improved reflexes 3 - 3.5 pp
Attribute boost agility 2 - 0.5 pp
Improved abilty Con 2 - 1 pp
Improved accuracy longarms 1 - Force 1 Qi focus tatto
Traceless walk - mentor spirit
Voice control 1 - mentor spirit
Augmentations:
Tailored pheromones 3 used, muscle toner 1 used. Total essence loss 1 point, 69750 ¥+24000 ¥ cash loss.
She rolls 21 dice to cheat somebody who's seeing her for the first time, 19 dice to bargain with mr. Johnson or a trader, and she can actually talk down even extremely biased security guard, cops or humanis goons.
EDIT: d'oh, forgot about the limits. Social 9, physical 6, mental 4.
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Adepts are not exactly 'casters' and they fit your concept really well. Here's an example, a female troll face adept:
A - Meta (Troll 5)
She rolls 21 dice to cheat somebody who's seeing her for the first time, 19 dice to bargain with mr. Johnson or a trader, and she can actually talk down even extremely biased security guard, cops or humanis goons.
You sir.........scare me.
He asks for an Infiltrator + Face, and you go............ TROLL.
What is worse........... You pulled it off.......... so........... very........ disturbing.
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Priority chargen is much more flexible than most people think ;)
And thanks for your praise.
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Let's look at a couple of karma efficiency items in these two builds though, perhaps:
ELF TROLL delta karma
BOD 5 5 0
AGI 7 3 -110 (Troll can't even actually ever get this high)
STR 1 5 +70 (but you're not actually even using this STR for anything, so what is that +70 actually worth?)
REA 5 2 -60
CHA 7 4 -90 (Troll can't even actually ever get this high)
INT 5 3 -45
LOG 2 2 0
WIL 3 5 +45
EDG 3 2 -15
So, the Elf (whom in this example I dropped the LOG by 2, as it's no longer used in physical B&E, and put those in BOD) comes out ahead by 205 in-game earned karma (and really more like 275 as STR is not important to this type of PC, slap a Shock glove on call it good).
Elf, skills C (28/2) Troll, skills B (36/5)
181 karma worth of Skills 283 Karma worth of Skills
So, the Troll build comes out ahead by 102 in-game earned karma for skills.
Elf, Y E (6K) Troll, Y C (140K)
If 2KY = 1 karma, then the Troll is ahead here by 67 in-game earned cash-for-karma. Although it's worth noting, in-game earned karma may be worth more to an Adept, as he needs a lot of karma to keep pumping that MAG/Initiating along with skills, than in-game earned cash. i.e. the Adept generally has more places to put karma than cash.
+205-275 vs. +169 is quite the disparity depending on how you reckon it, i.e. how much value you put in the unused STR (~36-106 karma), and when we look at the overall potential of the Elf in this PCs primary skills (Facing - CHA, Shooting+Sneaking - AGI, and Limits), he pulls away even more. I guess this is what I was talking about with the long game. Do you want to front-load the PC, and have the pools at the outset, or do you want to have the growth potential?
You could take the same Qualities with the Elf, for the same skill bonus'.
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Well, it has to be a veeery long run.
Wait a second, I thought I changed 'pistols' to 'unarmed' but I actually didn't, sorry.
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Well, it has to be a veeery long run.
Wait a second, I thought I changed 'pistols' to 'unarmed' but I actually didn't, sorry.
Oh yeah, 100s of karma in before the long-game approach starts to pay off? Wasn't disparaging your PC at all (more trying to convince myself mine doesn't suck), just using it to demonstrate the different build approaches.
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more trying to convince myself mine doesn't suck
But he objectively doesn't. There is some math behind your build to prove it. I think prioritygen's concept is about the dicepools though, not raw spent karma.
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Actually that is perfect because I was just about to attempt the same such thing and someone beat me to the math, perfect, also I see an elf or human fitting my mental picture of my character then the 10ft female gremlin from gremlins 2 lol.
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Trolls' exterior is quite variable. Just saying.
(http://i.imgur.com/dTEQrag.jpg)
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... I see an elf or human fitting my mental picture of my character then the 10ft female gremlin from gremlins 2 lol.
Well, if it interests you then, I reworked my original elf and like the outcome quite a bit more:
A Attributes (24)
B Metatype (Elf/6)
C Resources (140KY)
D Magic (2/-)
E Skills (18/-)
Attributes:
BOD 5
AGI 6(8 )
REA 5(7)
STR 1(2)
WIL 3
LOG 2
INT 5
CHA 8
MAG 5
EDG 3
ESS 5.4
Limits:
Mental 4
Physical 6
Social 8
Karma: 50
- 5, Stealth Group 1
- 15, Influence Group 1&2
- 7, Pistols (SA) Spec.
- 7, Locksmith (Mags) Spec.
Posi Qualities:
First Impression (-11)
Mentor Spirit, Seducer (-5) > I like the drawback better :P
Neg Qualities:
Allergy - Common, Mild (+10)
Code of Honor (+15)
Skills: - Pool
Con 6 - 16
Intimidate 1 - 9
Locksmith (Mags) 1(3) - 9(11)
Perception 3 - 8 (audio/viz = 11 with enhancers)
Pistols (SA) 6(8 ) - 14(16)
Unarmed 1 - 9
Influence Group 2 - 10s
Stealth Group 1 - 9s
Adept Powers:
Combat Sense 2 (1.0)
Commanding Voice 2 (0.5)
Enhanced Accuracy (Pistols) (0.25)
Facial Sculpt 3 (0.75)
Improved Reflexes 2 (2.5)
Gear:
Muscle Toner 2
Muscle Augmentation 1
+33KY in lifestyle, guns, ammo, armor, viz/audio enhancers, licenses, 'link, etc. etc.
Left ~12KY yet to spend, was planning on a vehicle.
Still room for some Reflex Recorders in that ESS, or maybe another level of Muscle Aug or whatever tickles your fancy. Didn't have any karma left to bind Qi Foci, so you've got plenty to save up for in play. All in all, he's got some good pools(Con=18 for first encounters, and pretty respectable init., defense, and shooting), and with the right accessories and tactics, should be a capable enough Sneaker along with a decent Disguise until you can start really pumping those Groups up.
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Karma: 50
- 15, Stealth Group 1&2
- 15, Influence Group 1&2
- 2, Pistol (SA) Spec
- 2, Locksmith (Maglocks) Spec
Don't specs cost 7 karma? Am I missing something?
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Karma: 50
- 15, Stealth Group 1&2
- 15, Influence Group 1&2
- 2, Pistol (SA) Spec
- 2, Locksmith (Maglocks) Spec
Don't specs cost 7 karma? Am I missing something?
Specs cost 7 after chargen, which is when these ones are being purchased using the rules on page 98 of SR5, which point to page 103. You aren't missing anything.
The Social Limit should also be 8. Page 100 of SR5: "For Social limits, round up Essence to the nearest whole number prior to calculating the cost." [(8 * 2) + 3 + 5 (5.4 rounds to nearest which is 5)]/3 = 8 Not that it's that large of a deal, but sometimes those little things matter.
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Don't specs cost 7 karma? Am I missing something?
Specs cost 7 after chargen, which is when these ones are being purchased using the rules on page 98 of SR5, which point to page 103. You aren't missing anything.
The Social Limit should also be 8. Page 100 of SR5: "For Social limits, round up Essence to the nearest whole number prior to calculating the cost." [(8 * 2) + 3 + 5 (5.4 rounds to nearest which is 5)]/3 = 8 Not that it's that large of a deal, but sometimes those little things matter.
Apparently I should have added the disclaimer: Made with Chummer 5 (which is of course in beta) >.< I don't have the 5E core so I can't cross-reference any of this stuff. I'll revise.
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It all makes sense now. Chummer bought your 1s for karma, leaving your skillpoints for specs.
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Apparently I should have added the disclaimer: Made with Chummer 5 (which is of course in beta) >.< I don't have the 5E core so I can't cross-reference any of this stuff. I'll revise.
Actually I'm an idiot. I didn't read my own quote correctly, you're right that it's a limit of 9, as it says Round up. I am the best at reading...
It all makes sense now. Chummer bought your 1s for karma, leaving your skillpoints for specs.
That shouldn't be possible though, since to buy any skills for karma, you are past the point in chargen where you can use skillpoints to buy specializations. His current setup though is possible, since he reallocated the karma from the stealth group to the specializations.
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That shouldn't be possible though, since to buy any skills for karma, you are past the point in chargen where you can use skillpoints to buy specializations. His current setup though is possible, since he reallocated the karma from the stealth group to the specializations.
It is possible in chummer5, because it does exactly this - relocating your points in the most efficient way. It is easy to overlook a separate column for karma purchases.
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So it's possible in chummer5 because chummer5 doesn't follow the chargen rules?
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Not exactly. There are separate columns for karma purchases and initial point purchases for skills. If you don't use both of them to build a character, then the program may get the message wrong.
Just checked it. It may be true for older versions, but now chummer goes strictly by the rules if I'm not missing anything.
But still, it's better to spend 4 karma for unarmed and intimidate than 14 karma for 2 specs.
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So it's possible in chummer5 because chummer5 doesn't follow the chargen rules?
I'd have to download an play with it, but I expect if there is an error, it would probably be around skill groups. Breaking skill groups is just messy in char gen. They system is designed to make it less optimal to do so.