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Modular Connector & Modular Cyberlimbs

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I_AM_ZHOUL!!!

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« on: <07-06-15/1311:18> »
This is confusing me on how these all work together & interact with each other. Questions I have...

#1. Could I get the Modular Connector Shoulder for .3 essence and connect a Cyberlimb to it for free? That seems broken.

#1b. Do I have to buy the Modular Connector Shoulder & a Modular Cyberarm for a total of 1.3 Essence to be able to swap arms?

#1c. Do I have to pay an essence cost to have a Modular Connector for a partial arm in a full arm?

#2. Do I have to buy the Full arm with it's -3 Capacity to use a Modular Partial Arm? Does that mean I have a modular Connector at each part (shoulder/forearm/hand)? It appears from a different issue about them in the Errata thread that each Modular Connector is supposed to take one slot. But I guess that's 1 capacity for each side, I guess... not sure.

#2a. Can I buy a Full Arm with only 1 Modular Connector in it for just using the Partial Arm swap? Thereby reducing the Capacity to -1 from -3?

#2b. If I buy a Modular Full Arm does that mean I can fit a Forearm or Hand on it? Can I have 2 separate parts to be able to swap around between different Forearms & different hands?

#3. It says that the Lower Arm takes up [10] Capacity... from the Arm Total. How much is then available for it to use? The same as a lower arm/leg?

#4. Do I have to keep Agility/Strength Enhancements in each part?

#4a. Do they stack across different pieces? Like have a +2 in the upper arm & +1 in the lower arm for a +3 total?

#4b. Why was no mention made about the highest bonus provided? Augmentation Maximum doesn't apply to Cyberlimbs. While I don't enjoy hardcover books flying at my head, so I wouldn't do it but putting a +3 Agility in Hand/Lower Arm/Upper Arm for a +9 total is perfectly within RAW at this point.

« Last Edit: <07-06-15/1313:27> by I_AM_ZHOUL!!! »

gradivus

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« Reply #1 on: <07-06-15/1651:21> »
4b...a full arm, a partial arm and a cyber haand are three different cyberlimbs.
you cant stack a hand on top of a partial on top of a full limb...so no +9 for you my friend.
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I_AM_ZHOUL!!!

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« Reply #2 on: <07-06-15/1729:35> »
4b...a full arm, a partial arm and a cyber haand are three different cyberlimbs.
you cant stack a hand on top of a partial on top of a full limb...so no +9 for you my friend.

Chromed Flesh my friend... read it. At the very least you can get +9 armor, no reason that the same stacking doesn't apply to strength & agility. Not saying that it isn't stupid, broken, & illogical... but it is RAW!

UnLimiTeD

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« Reply #3 on: <07-06-15/1850:28> »
By literal interpretation raw, a modular hand needs to slotted on a lower arm, which, if modular, needs to be slotted on an upper arm.
Assuming you use Capacity whenever possible, and want a full modular system, you're gonna have:
A Hand with 3 Capacity.
A Lower Arm with 3/8 Capacity (5 being taken up by the hand).
An upper Arm with 2/12 Capacity (10 being taken up with the lower arm).
The whole business will cost you 1.3 Essence, assuming standard ware.
By raw, you can indeed fill the whole set with armour, as I've noted in the errata thread already.
What happens to other augmentations(agi+str), we do indeed not know.
Still waiting on a Vector-Thrust Liminal Body.

Triskavanski

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« Reply #4 on: <07-06-15/2012:04> »
Here's another question.. Do you need to keep all the ware levels the same?Like if you go delta arm, do you have to get delta modular connector too?

What about things that change essence costs? Like if you get the legs lopped off for normal bipedal legs that have a modular attachment to allow them to replace out with digrade legs?
Concepts are great, but implementation sucks. Why not improve it?

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UnLimiTeD

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« Reply #5 on: <07-06-15/2026:36> »
We have no reason to assume you can suddenly mix grades.
No idea on Upgrades that cost capacity and essence, if it's even meant like that.

Let me add a question of my own:
Can you bulk up every single part of the chain?
Still waiting on a Vector-Thrust Liminal Body.

Triskavanski

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« Reply #6 on: <07-06-15/2101:16> »
well, you can have an alphaware arm and a deltawear leg right? Or even a used arm and a delta torso?
Concepts are great, but implementation sucks. Why not improve it?

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I_AM_ZHOUL!!!

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« Reply #7 on: <07-06-15/2118:38> »
well, you can have an alphaware arm and a deltawear leg right? Or even a used arm and a delta torso?

Yes but those are separate systems. Modular Connector systems are all taking Capacity from the pieces higher up the system. Meaning that the Hand is "IN" the Lower Arm which is "IN" the Full Arm. Anything taking Capacity has to be the same Grade as what's it's going into. That would be just as true for Cybereyes in Eye Mounts installed in your Cyberhand, they all have the same Grade as the Base Limb.


Let me add a question of my own:
Can you bulk up every single part of the chain?

Another very good question I hadn't thought of.... again it's Technically RAW. This System needed it's own Sub-Chapter not 2 short & vague Fluff paragraphs we got. Whoever is in charge over there has their priorities JACKED!!!!! I can accept that it was rushed to have it ready for GenCon, that's an acceptable Marketing goal that they had to hit. But focus needs (& it's definitely not just Chromed Flesh, Data Trails suffers from the same issues) to be on the Crunchy Bits so when stuff is rushed & being cut... it's the Fluffy Bits take are getting dumped.  I love the Fluffy Bits since I love the Lore & Universe but these are Sourcebooks!!!!! The Rules to play the game are the most important part of them.... witty jackpointers are a non existent 2nd in comparison.

gradivus

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« Reply #8 on: <07-08-15/1821:07> »
By literal interpretation raw, a modular hand needs to slotted on a lower arm, which, if modular, needs to be slotted on an upper arm.
Assuming you use Capacity whenever possible, and want a full modular system, you're gonna have:
A Hand with 3 Capacity.
A Lower Arm with 3/8 Capacity (5 being taken up by the hand).
An upper Arm with 2/12 Capacity (10 being taken up with the lower arm).
The whole business will cost you 1.3 Essence, assuming standard ware.
By raw, you can indeed fill the whole set with armour, as I've noted in the errata thread already.
What happens to other augmentations(agi+str), we do indeed not know.

I'm confused...
what page/book has the stats for an upper arm....
I see full arm, lower arm and hand...no upper.

or are you saying you start with a full arm adding a modular joint thus effectively using 10 capacity and creating a lower arm then adding a modular joint using up 8 capacity of the lower arm to create a hand? I am guessing this is what you mean. And of course if this is the case, you started with an obvious cyberlimb with no bulk enhancement.

And I'm still not convinced that it was intended to that you be able to do this. But who knows what they intend considering the inconsistent language they use throughout the books
« Last Edit: <07-08-15/1832:57> by gradivus »
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UnLimiTeD

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« Reply #9 on: <07-08-15/2033:36> »
Wakshaani has since answered on the errata thread. You either add a modular limb, whether full or partial, to an actual body part, or you add a modular connector, then add a regular limb.
So in the given example, you'd have a hand with 4 capacity and a lower arm with 10 (- what the connector takes), but the last bit is correct at 12, unless you pick a connector on your body, taking you an extra 30% essence, but giving you the full 15 instead.
At least, that's how I understood it now.
Enhancements for all sublimbs are added together, and the same limits apply.
Still waiting on a Vector-Thrust Liminal Body.

gradivus

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« Reply #10 on: <07-09-15/1948:09> »
Wakshaani has since answered on the errata thread. You either add a modular limb, whether full or partial, to an actual body part, or you add a modular connector, then add a regular limb.
So in the given example, you'd have a hand with 4 capacity and a lower arm with 10 (- what the connector takes), but the last bit is correct at 12, unless you pick a connector on your body, taking you an extra 30% essence, but giving you the full 15 instead.
At least, that's how I understood it now.
Enhancements for all sublimbs are added together, and the same limits apply.

Last Wakshanni wrote was that you only added STR/AGI modifications to the upper most modular limb and all lower limbs use that... The armor stacking he said needed to be addressed upstairs I believe, but for now...yes you can stack to your Wheaton Law breaking heart's desire. Maybe too harsh but for some reason cyberlimb armor stacking is my pet peeve this addition. And yet I see no problem with datajack stacking- my brain must be fried from all the supergluing miniatures together.
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« Reply #11 on: <07-09-15/2302:11> »
Its the whole "center mass = target, why the does armor on a hand make the center mass harder to hurt??" Argument.

I have it too. But it is Rules legal. (No matter how we gnash our teeth against it)
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

I_AM_ZHOUL!!!

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« Reply #12 on: <07-10-15/0453:59> »
Its the whole "center mass = target, why the does armor on a hand make the center mass harder to hurt??" Argument.

I have it too. But it is Rules legal. (No matter how we gnash our teeth against it)

Get it while it's hot.. since it has been expressly said that it's going to be Errata'd by the designer since it's bad Rule explanation... if your GM just doesn't throw shit at you first.

Reaver

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« Reply #13 on: <07-10-15/0504:02> »
Its the whole "center mass = target, why the does armor on a hand make the center mass harder to hurt??" Argument.

I have it too. But it is Rules legal. (No matter how we gnash our teeth against it)

Get it while it's hot.. since it has been expressly said that it's going to be Errata'd by the designer since it's bad Rule explanation... if your GM just doesn't throw shit at you first.

Really? where you hear that!?!
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

gradivus

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« Reply #14 on: <07-10-15/1827:05> »
evidently I don't the difference between 'addition' and 'edition', laughing at myself.

personally I'd prefer that armor on cyberlimb count full if directly targeted otherwise it be averaged somehow (maybe 1/4 per full limb, 1/8 partial, 1/12 hand/foot/skull...add all the fractions together and then round up) Probably too complicated for most tables....

But I'd settle just for.. you can stack but just not hand/feet
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