[Mirikon]

1: You require mutual signal range or a subscription - a subscription does not specifically require you to subscribe to another node in MSR.  It just requires that there be at least one other node in MSR which has MSR to at least one other node and so on, whether or not you have access.  That's how the mesh works.  If a hacker in Seattle wants to hack something in Neo-Tokyo, he doesn't need to hack a chain of nodes to get there.

2: The PAN is run through the commlink, but anyone who has the least reason to be security-aware slaves the PAN to the commlink.

3: In a centralized tacnet, the rest of the team slaves their commlinks over to the master node.  This is made explicit in the description of centralized tacnets - see Unwired, page 125.

RHat, the PAN can't be slaved to the commlink, the PAN IS the commlink! It is your desktop when you boot up your PC.

As far as routing goes, that is true for nodes that are Public, but Hidden nodes you still have to search for, and that means you need access to a wireless system's processing power to run your scan program. Doesn't mean you need admin access, or even have to hack it if it is a node with a public access feature, but you have to have access to a node to run programs on the node, and Scan is a program. For argument's sake, let's assume that the guys you're fighting aren't complete morons, and have their commlinks in hidden mode.

I concede your point on number 3. It had been a while since I read that.

However, the gun will almost always be slaved to the PAN, which means the easiest way to hack in is to hack the PAN.

[RHat]

A single device cannot per definition be a network.  So, given that a PAN is your Personal Area Network...

As for Hidden mode:  If you haven't found it yet, that would be the one time you need MSR.  But that's what the sam's commlink is for.

[Shadowjack]

I'll just say, Shadowjack, that since TMs don't have access to initiative boosters unless a mage casts a spell on them, they take (potentially quite addicting) combat drugs, or hamstring their power with ware, then being in AR/VR and hacking things is probably the best contribution they can make to combat. Sure, if they submerge a couple times and choose the right echoes, they can grab an echo that gives them extra IPs in the meat, but that's a LONG way down the road.

Good point. Personally, I would prefer just to fire a shot or two and contribute that way. Even moderately skilled combatants can still deliver some game changing attacks.

[Gorean]

A single device cannot per definition be a network.  So, given that a PAN is your Personal Area Network...

From the rulebook

Code: [Select]

Almost everyone has their own personal area network (PAN), a micro-network linking together all of their personal devices with their commlink as the central router and Matrix hub.

So yes your commlink is your point at which you hack someones PAN, even if its there only electrical device.

[RHat]

Precisely.  The commlink is the core of the PAN, just like the master node is the core of a slaved network.

[Gorean]

It would be interesting to get a run down from the OP of what a typical combat turn involving the Techno looks like.

Because assuming he's done the whole find hidden node stuff before combat starts he's just ejecting the clip from one mook per turn which is still less than the multi-kill per turn the Sams would be doing.

[Novocrane]

Note that the wireless override applies only if you have a cyberware smartlink.

It's about 2000 nuyen for the lot, retail. (cybersafety palm chip, gun mod, image link and smart link cyberware) Less if you're getting a bulk deal, are a subsidiary of a manufacturing corp, etc.

[MarmaladeEffect]

First, thanks a lot for the help, everyone. Next combat is going to go a bit differently.

It would be interesting to get a run down from the OP of what a typical combat turn involving the Techno looks like.

Because assuming he's done the whole find hidden node stuff before combat starts he's just ejecting the clip from one mook per turn which is still less than the multi-kill per turn the Sams would be doing.

The rest of the party is a face, a sniper (who doesn't believe in 'ware or drugs and isn't an adept), and a troll street sam with a tank build. The sniper only kills one mook per turn, and so does the troll, since she either melees (complex action) or uses a bow (which is really devastating, but also a complex action). The face only kills a guy if he gets lucky. I encouraged the sam to get wired reflexes, but she didn't want to, which means the technomancer is the only one with more than one IP.

And, like I said, I do try to provide other interesting stuff for the technomancer to do, like cars to drive into people, turrets to take over, fire suppression systems to activate/deactivate, doors to hack, drones to hack, etc.

[Mirikon]

So in other words, the main cause of the problem doesn't lie with the technomancer, but with the fact that your group intentionally gimped themselves for style points. Cool characterization, but it does affect the balance of things.

[RHat]

Note that the wireless override applies only if you have a cyberware smartlink.

It's about 2000 nuyen for the lot, retail. (cybersafety palm chip, gun mod, image link and smart link cyberware) Less if you're getting a bulk deal, are a subsidiary of a manufacturing corp, etc.

My point was that many people don't have cyberware at all, especially if the security team includes adepts or mages.

[Novocrane]

It's not uncommon for awakened corp security to have 'ware.

[RHat]

It's not uncommon for awakened corp security to have 'ware.

Depending on the GM, I suppose.  All I'm saying is don't assume everyone has it.

[MarmaladeEffect]

So in other words, the main cause of the problem doesn't lie with the technomancer, but with the fact that your group intentionally gimped themselves for style points. Cool characterization, but it does affect the balance of things.

Also, the techomancer is the only one who's totally familiar with the system and into optimizing characters. The others are under the impression that they've got decent stats. And I'm not sure they don't, for very specific circumstances like fighting a heavily armored opponent.

[dertechie]

So in other words, the main cause of the problem doesn't lie with the technomancer, but with the fact that your group intentionally gimped themselves for style points. Cool characterization, but it does affect the balance of things.

Also, the techomancer is the only one who's totally familiar with the system and into optimizing characters. The others are under the impression that they've got decent stats. And I'm not sure they don't, for very specific circumstances like fighting a heavily armored opponent.

Now that you mention this, it strikes me that the technomancer might actually be trying to stay (relatively) low profile in combat and not just eat everyone else's spotlight.  Or maybe he just likes battlefield control effects.  Disabling an enemy is effective at that level of group optimization, keeps him alive and everyone else feels like they're contributing.  If that's not the case you may have an issue though, but from what you're saying no one feels massively overshadowed.

Just make sure you don't back him into a corner (though from what you've said he should have plenty of background objects to turn on corpsec).

[Mirikon]

So in other words, the main cause of the problem doesn't lie with the technomancer, but with the fact that your group intentionally gimped themselves for style points. Cool characterization, but it does affect the balance of things.

Also, the techomancer is the only one who's totally familiar with the system and into optimizing characters. The others are under the impression that they've got decent stats. And I'm not sure they don't, for very specific circumstances like fighting a heavily armored opponent.

Now that you mention this, it strikes me that the technomancer might actually be trying to stay (relatively) low profile in combat and not just eat everyone else's spotlight.  Or maybe he just likes battlefield control effects.  Disabling an enemy is effective at that level of group optimization, keeps him alive and everyone else feels like they're contributing.  If that's not the case you may have an issue though, but from what you're saying no one feels massively overshadowed.

Just make sure you don't back him into a corner (though from what you've said he should have plenty of background objects to turn on corpsec).

Against a single, heavily armored opponent, perhaps they do. Against anything else, however, not so much. This is the kind of group that could take out a main battle tank in the surprise round, but get wasted by a group of low level gangers who just got their first wires second-hand. The face is understandable, as there are other considerations there, but if the sniper and samurai are actively avoiding getting extra IPs, then they are the reason the technomancer looks so good.

What you may need is an object lesson in the power of additional Initiative passes. Wait until the next time they run against Renraku, and have a squad of Red Samurai on site. Whether that is in the intel or not is up to you, but I'd go with surprising them. Use the stats in the SR4A book, and have a four-man squad. Be nice, and put gel rounds in the assault rifles. The reason being that there are things in the area that react badly to bullets, in the "Oh god, we're all gonna die" kind of way. Any of the group that gets knocked out gets to play the "offer you can't refuse" game.

Or, if you want something more towards their level, but still showing an object lesson in the power of IPs, have a rigger work against them, with several drones in concert. Show them what a difference having just one extra IP means, especially when there is someone in the system keeping the TM from simply waltzing in to disarm the threat.

I say this from personal experience as a player. A TPK, now and then, can be a good learning experience, especially when you didn't know there was a lesson you needed to learn. Now, should every encounter be trying to wipe the players out? Of course not. But every once in a while, you have to throw a fastball in on their hands to keep them honest.