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Resonance Riding Echo for TM... Call/Dismiss Sprites only?

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kainite311

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« on: <05-31-18/2045:39> »
So trying to see the point of Resonance Riding RAW. Seems to really only allow you to call/dismiss sprites, and MAYBE let you use other Technomancer Echo's. That about it? Seems rather lackluster or am I missing something other then a maybe niche use of it if you have a really kick-ass Fairlight deck (with a Machine Sprite running Diagnostics, which doesn't really need the Echo to do to begin with...) and doubling down with teamwork tests of Sprites...
Kainite
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FST_Gemstar

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« Reply #1 on: <05-31-18/2242:15> »
Ya... it's dumb. 

Especially when you can basically already do the sprite commanding technically. When in your living persona, loan your sprites to your cyberdeck persona. When you are done using your cyberdeck persona, loan them back to your living persona. 

Technomancer cyberdecking is mostly just for diagnostics cheesing, and even then, it's not even worth it. 

SpellBinder

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« Reply #2 on: <06-01-18/0247:00> »
Yeah, agreed that it's dumb.  The resonance is supposed to follow you through a deck, but the nano-thin trail is just to call and dismiss sprites.  Hell, you're explicitly forbidden from compiling sprites so you've gotta summon them before you switch over to true hardware.

I had thought technomancers were cool in the previous edition, but I still feel that they've been beaten down with a tropical forest of nerf bats.  Maybe the oft spoken of technomancer book will help swing things in their favor, assuming it actually sees the light of day.

kainite311

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« Reply #3 on: <06-01-18/1249:10> »
What about maintaining complex forms... is that considered a resonance action per se? Does maintaining require your living persona to be active?
Kainite
Actually, in most Shadowrun games, they typically have a Lifestyle so they're either Murder Hobos (Street/Squatter Level) or Murder Renters (Low+ level)

firebug

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« Reply #4 on: <06-01-18/1257:29> »
Yeah, agreed that it's dumb.  The resonance is supposed to follow you through a deck, but the nano-thin trail is just to call and dismiss sprites.  Hell, you're explicitly forbidden from compiling sprites so you've gotta summon them before you switch over to true hardware.

I had thought technomancers were cool in the previous edition, but I still feel that they've been beaten down with a tropical forest of nerf bats.  Maybe the oft spoken of technomancer book will help swing things in their favor, assuming it actually sees the light of day.

The "technomancer book" is now known as Kill Code and it's one of the upcoming releases, if you haven't heard.  Of course, that hardly says anything about when it will be released.  I'm very excited for it and hope it'll make playing a technorigger more viable (and possible right from character creation).  Fingers crossed!

What about maintaining complex forms... is that considered a resonance action per se? Does maintaining require your living persona to be active?

Hmm...  Maintaining them wouldn't be an "action", it's more like a status that continues after you use the Threading action to use a CF.  But it would make sense that your Living Persona, the thing that performed the Complex Form, would have to be active for you to maintain it.  I'll bring that to the errata team and see what they think.  Like, if you get jammed (enough Noise to make you lose wireless) then it'd seem weird if you could keep sustaining a CF, right?  But it doesn't say anywhere.
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kainite311

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« Reply #5 on: <06-01-18/1503:19> »
So that would mean noise would cause dumpshock wouldn't it? If it disrupted your living persona?
Kainite
Actually, in most Shadowrun games, they typically have a Lifestyle so they're either Murder Hobos (Street/Squatter Level) or Murder Renters (Low+ level)

firebug

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« Reply #6 on: <06-01-18/1509:39> »
I'm pretty confident getting forcibly disconnected due to Noise does cause dumpshock normally, right?  Or is that also not spelled out anywhere?
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Sphinx

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« Reply #7 on: <06-01-18/1525:26> »
I'm pretty confident getting forcibly disconnected due to Noise does cause dumpshock normally, right?  Or is that also not spelled out anywhere?

SR5 p.229: "When you’re disconnected from the Matrix while in VR without gracefully switching to AR first, you suffer a nasty shock as your sim module kicks out. This happens to hackers so often it has its own name: dumpshock."

Seems plain enough.

Marcus

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« Reply #8 on: <06-01-18/1629:32> »
Lagging out causes dumpshock? That seems a little extreme.
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Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #9 on: <06-01-18/1648:31> »
I'm pretty confident getting forcibly disconnected due to Noise does cause dumpshock normally, right?  Or is that also not spelled out anywhere?

Seems like that'd be the logical result of hitting a Decker/TM with a Jammer with a DR that surprasses the Commlink/Living Persona/Cyberdeck DR+NR.  Go from the Matrix to suddenly No Matrix is exactly what dumpshock would be.
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kainite311

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« Reply #10 on: <06-01-18/1727:42> »
Seems rather sever and actually easy to do... direct log in on same building  that the security team/spider is on. Matrix action - Jam with edge plus teamwork test. Insta gib the spider (easy enough to get 5+ successes). And before someone goes all in with noise reduction, who runs with all their noise reduction on, all the time. And if everyone does, then it would just be 'standard' and no need to actually have it. Once everyone does it, it is no longer the exception, it just becomes the norm...
« Last Edit: <06-01-18/1729:55> by kainite311 »
Kainite
Actually, in most Shadowrun games, they typically have a Lifestyle so they're either Murder Hobos (Street/Squatter Level) or Murder Renters (Low+ level)

firebug

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« Reply #11 on: <06-03-18/2016:47> »
If the Spider is physically in the facility, and you disconnect them with Noise, I think they would just wake up in pain and alert security that something just forcibly booted them off the system.  If they were a total noob who didn't think a sudden huge burst of static wasn't hostile and was somehow a thing that just "happened", they'd at least alert someone since they wouldn't be able to re-connect.  Remember, they're apparently physically there.  They'd step out their office or wherever and start shouting at someone.  Dumpshock doesn't do enough damage to knock someone unconscious unless they're already damaged.
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Michael Chandra

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« Reply #12 on: <06-04-18/0214:14> »
Of course some Spiders are distant-logged-in, depending on the facility, but yeah it'd be hard to take them out in 1 go.

Upside: They might qualify for Detect Enemies after that point?_? So if you have that on you after you boot them, you can try to figure out their precise location. :P
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Xenon

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« Reply #13 on: <06-04-18/0240:54> »
To answer the OP:

Normally if you log out your Living Persona and create a persona on a device (such as a commlink, RCC or cyberdeck) you don't bring any of your resonance based abilities with you.

With this echo you can still Call, Dismiss and Control your already registered sprites (but not summon or register any new sprites) and you can still Decompile sprites and Kill Complex Forms (but not threading any of your own).

Depending on your reading this let you use your existing registered machine sprites to run diagnostics on the device you used to log into the matrix (basically acting as assistants in a team work test to potentially increasing your limits and giving you a positive dice pool modifier).

kainite311

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« Reply #14 on: <06-04-18/1820:59> »
To answer the OP:

Normally if you log out your Living Persona and create a persona on a device (such as a commlink, RCC or cyberdeck) you don't bring any of your resonance based abilities with you.

With this echo you can still Call, Dismiss and Control your already registered sprites (but not summon or register any new sprites) and you can still Decompile sprites and Kill Complex Forms (but not threading any of your own).

Depending on your reading this let you use your existing registered machine sprites to run diagnostics on the device you used to log into the matrix (basically acting as assistants in a team work test to potentially increasing your limits and giving you a positive dice pool modifier).

But none of this is can't already be done without the echo (without the caveat of using tasks), saves you a single task per sprite (with the exception of Diagnostics, which can simply have been set before 'jacking' in with the cybedeck). Unless I am totally not understanding how loaned task works.

Simply command sprite to follow orders of cyberdeck persona. Machine Sprite was set to Diagnostics as it's task beforehand, so you don't need to use another task from it, as it's previously ongoing from whenever you started it. The only thing the echo seems to add is the ability to call one of your sprites, but that could be argued that since you loaned it to another persona, it can call them too (not seeing why you neccessarily couldn't).

If the Spider is physically in the facility, and you disconnect them with Noise, I think they would just wake up in pain and alert security that something just forcibly booted them off the system.  If they were a total noob who didn't think a sudden huge burst of static wasn't hostile and was somehow a thing that just "happened", they'd at least alert someone since they wouldn't be able to re-connect.  Remember, they're apparently physically there.  They'd step out their office or wherever and start shouting at someone.  Dumpshock doesn't do enough damage to knock someone unconscious unless they're already damaged.

Correct, but you just completely nullified them for the rest of the combat turn, and the next. That's a lot of free time to do your thing, plus hide again and restart the 'find the hacker' perception checks, usually granting another few IP's. Now hopefully, the spider is smart and comes back better prepared and loads some noise reduction stuff, in reality his DR 3-4 deck, plus datajack, signal scrubber - I don't see vectored filter on any of the spiders in Data Trails, so assume most don't have it. Don't see any with antenna either. So 6-7 noise is the max they could handle. Rinse, repeat the teamwork, edge Jamming test. And another 2 combat turns of freedom from spider. IC is still there if in a host, but in a matrix fight between 2 deckers, it would come down to who goes first most of the time each round to simply knock each other offline again.

To further confound this discussion, what about the the ambient noise? Most areas are going to be 2-4 (that's just using the everyday urban to commercial area, not adding in any 'special' factors) looking at the chart in CRB. How does a commlink below DR 5 ever work even half the time? Why would anyone buy a rating commlink 1-3 if it never worked because noise is omnipresent. Why would a corp sell it? Even the professional rating 4 team has rating 4 DR commlinks... Marcus_Gideon had a really good example about this on one of the reddit forums, but I can't seem to locate it again right now (my reddit-fu search skills suck as I don't use reddit :()

With the above mentioned rules weirdness, I would interpet that they lose the wireless listed bonus, but basic connectivity is still there and that the 'funtionality loss' is represented by the penalty (penalize someone enough the action can't succeed, representing blocked by noise), and therefor the decker would just suffer the penalty, not the loss of actual connection. Maybe directly using an actual jammer on the decker as a special case, vs simply just noise from anything... Hopefully that wasn't to jumbled, what I am thinking in my head, doesn't translate well when I type it... :)

Kainite
Actually, in most Shadowrun games, they typically have a Lifestyle so they're either Murder Hobos (Street/Squatter Level) or Murder Renters (Low+ level)