Shadowrun

Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: SrJohnson on <09-13-17/1547:06>

Title: Questions: Persona in AR, spot Persona, Hide without Silent mode
Post by: SrJohnson on <09-13-17/1547:06>
1) I understand that your Persona icon goes with you in AR mode.
If you are not running in Silent mode, What do the people arround you see of you in AR? Does your Persona icon overlapping over your real/meat body or something like that? (and in AR mode you see a zoo of Persona icons walking for the street)

2) If a decker/technomancer attack a device in AR, what does other people see? does they see you (or your persona icon) attacking (firing rays/hitting the target and everyone around you notes that you are attacking something/someone) or is more subtle like casting a mana spell (the people around you probably doesn't note that you are casting a spell).

3)Is there a way to hide your device/persona icon without using Silent Mode? Because "Hide" Matrix Action works only when you are spotted. Can you use it before of getting spotted or there is something that can do that?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Questions: Persona in AR, spot Persona, Hide without Silent mode
Post by: RiggerBob on <09-13-17/1815:38>
3) You can hide your persona by running silent, which is a simple action without any test (see: Core, p.235). The hide matrix action is only used if you are spotted (via matrix perception test) while already running silent (see: Core, p.240). Remember to get rid of marks on you first, because you automatically spot any icon you have a mark on.
Title: Re: Questions: Persona in AR, spot Persona, Hide without Silent mode
Post by: &#24525; on <09-13-17/1830:14>
Icons don't generally overlay on top of a person in meatspace. It would be more akin to the Sim's floating diamond. Something hovering above or beside you. In theory it could cover you in meatspace, but that would be most uncommon.

Cybercombat doesn't have any explicit visual rules. You could just as easily insert any video game combat graphics or fight scene from the Matrix (the movie). This would fill a narrative space instead of a mechanical one. Simply put the rest of the world isn’t going to know without a Matrix Perception test.
Title: Re: Questions: Persona in AR, spot Persona, Hide without Silent mode
Post by: The Bald Man on <09-14-17/0801:36>
Cybercombat doesn't have any explicit visual rules. You could just as easily insert any video game combat graphics or fight scene from the Matrix (the movie). This would fill a narrative space instead of a mechanical one. Simply put the rest of the world isn’t going to know without a Matrix Perception test.

The Matrix does enforce iconography and the fluff descriptions have pretty dramatic visual queues for data spike.  If you are running silent the mass of humanity on the street will see nothing.  If you aren't then they will get a show if you are slinging around Data Spikes - though that show will be brief (due to matrix initiative). 
Sleaze actions on the other hand wouldn't be noticeable even if you aren't running silent. 
Title: Re: Questions: Persona in AR, spot Persona, Hide without Silent mode
Post by: Jack_Spade on <09-14-17/0956:28>
Fluff and crunch don't always play nice together in 5e and there is a severe disconnect on what you actually see in AR.

For example there is AR fashion that allows you to appear quite different in AR - this is based on an overlay over your real form and likely identical with your persona.
But: You can't use the persona icon to pin-point the position of a person without using a trace action (Otherwise it would be pretty trivial to shoot people through walls).

My interpretation is that personae only align with your physical form when you have line of sight to the person.

A dataspike attack could show itself as graphic glitches in your AR display - just as if your smartphone has a hang up and needs to be rebooted.
Title: Re: Questions: Persona in AR, spot Persona, Hide without Silent mode
Post by: Beta-Max on <09-14-17/1504:12>
I've always interpreted it as follows:

I'm in AR, my Persona is in the Matrix, visible to those IN the matrix, it follows me along. But as there are some geolocational adjustments, you need to trace to find me.
When you look at me without augmentation, you see meatspace me. When you look at me in AR you see any fun ARO objects i've programmed/bought/whatever that overlay ME
If you look at me in the matrix, you see my persona which is however i wish it to look.
Title: Re: Questions: Persona in AR, spot Persona, Hide without Silent mode
Post by: The Bald Man on <09-14-17/1912:34>
I've always interpreted it as follows:

I'm in AR, my Persona is in the Matrix, visible to those IN the matrix, it follows me along. But as there are some geolocational adjustments, you need to trace to find me.
When you look at me without augmentation, you see meatspace me. When you look at me in AR you see any fun ARO objects i've programmed/bought/whatever that overlay ME
If you look at me in the matrix, you see my persona which is however i wish it to look.
Wouldn't all those ARO you mention in AR also be visible from a purely matrix perspective?
Title: Re: Questions: Persona in AR, spot Persona, Hide without Silent mode
Post by: Beta-Max on <09-15-17/0925:57>
Quote
I've always interpreted it as follows:

I'm in AR, my Persona is in the Matrix, visible to those IN the matrix, it follows me along. But as there are some geolocational adjustments, you need to trace to find me.
When you look at me without augmentation, you see meatspace me. When you look at me in AR you see any fun ARO objects i've programmed/bought/whatever that overlay ME
If you look at me in the matrix, you see my persona which is however i wish it to look.
Quote
Wouldn't all those ARO you mention in AR also be visible from a purely matrix perspective?
I would think  that would be wholly dependent on whether I wish them to be or not. The awesome dragon i programmed to sit in my shoulder all game of thrones-ey in AR may not fit with the design of my persona.
Title: Re: Questions: Persona in AR, spot Persona, Hide without Silent mode
Post by: The Bald Man on <09-15-17/2320:11>
Not how I interpret it - and we don't have to agree. 

They way I look at it any 'public' ARO is going to be visible to solely matrix viewers.  Public ARO's are the kind of thing you talked about.  Private ARO's might be the rainbow heart you and your partner have overhead so you can find each other in a crowd or the ARO pointing out the incoming security vehicle your rigger is calling out - shared only with your team. 
If your game of thrones dragon is visible to people (with image link) on the street then it would be visible to people on the matrix. 
Title: Re: Questions: Persona in AR, spot Persona, Hide without Silent mode
Post by: Officerzan on <09-17-17/0808:09>
1) Your persona never really "goes" with you. If you are logged into the Matrix, the device connecting you is subsumed by your persona. If you are walking down the street while surfing the web, your Persona may be off jumping from host to host.

Just because something is visible in your ARO, doesn't mean it is in VR. The floating settings gear may be (via your commlink's Icon) but there is a distinction between the two. You may have a virtual dragon from V-Pet and like to show it off in your ARO. However maybe your dragon is only acessible in the V-Pets host and the AR representation is just a reward for leveling it to 50. Perhaps you unlock the VR Persona accessory when it reaches 100.

VR and AR look like whatever the Grid, Host, User wants it to (while meeting certain requirements that is, without wrappers). Want your ARO to place a floating geisha mask on your face for the party while your Persona looks like a power ranger? No problem. Want your Persona's looks to overlay your whole meatbody? Go for it. Just keep in mind, even if you overlay yourself with your Persona doesn't mean your Persona is there.

It's all fluff. Visual at that. Go nuts..
Title: Re: Questions: Persona in AR, spot Persona, Hide without Silent mode
Post by: Bedlamtom on <06-01-18/1801:19>
Okay I may be misunderstanding, and I realize that this is an old post and nobody may answer this, but How does one see AR images from the Matrix? If you're in Hot or Cold Sim your body has gone floppy. I'm okay with any version of the above descriptions but I confused by that point.
Title: Re: Questions: Persona in AR, spot Persona, Hide without Silent mode
Post by: Xenon on <06-01-18/1919:47>
SR5 p. 229 Augmented Reality
You can see the Matrix if you like, either by creating a virtual window or display screen and viewing it like a camera, or by overlaying device and host information on your normal vision.

SR5 p. 229 Cold-Sim Virtual Reality
You see the Matrix as though you were really there, soaring among the icons.

SR5 p. 230 Hot-Sim Virtual Reality
You are flooded with simsense signals that can even affect your limbic system, so you can not only see, hear, and touch the Matrix, but you can feel it.
Title: Re: Questions: Persona in AR, spot Persona, Hide without Silent mode
Post by: Bedlamtom on <06-01-18/1927:12>
All of that lets you see INTO the matrix. The question is seeing into AR  from the matrix.
Title: Re: Questions: Persona in AR, spot Persona, Hide without Silent mode
Post by: Xenon on <06-01-18/2111:31>
In AR you will see the couch you are sitting in, walls, floor, ceiling. You see wireless enabled electronic devices and their animated augmented reality icon that you can interact with without walking over to the actual device. Once you check into VR, the couch, walls, floor, ceiling and everything physical nearby drop from view, and instead you see the Matrix’s plane of stars. You are surrounded on all sides by less than human sized virtual representations of wireless enabled electronic devices of the real world. It is the very same device icons you would normally see and interact with when you overlay matrix information on your normal vision.

People in the matrix are represented by persona icons. Persona icons usually look just like the people they represent, sometimes with a splash of style like flashing eyes, hair coloring, or a tastefully understated aura. But there are also wilder looks out there, such as anime dolls, ninjas, robots and even monsters. One common thing is that all avatars are between a dwarf and troll size. Just like in AR some of them might be highlighted by a nice blue aura representing your friends.

You are not bound to physics and can fly up in the matrix sky if you like. If you do then, far below you, and in every direction wireless enabled electronic devices of the real world will lit up the landscape like a galaxy of stars.

Even from up here you notice that devices closest to your physical body are the brightest and clearest, but if you like you can travel to the distant horizon in a blink of an eye.

The farther away devices are from you in the real world, the dimmer their icons are in the Matrix; this is partly because your commlink figures the farther ones aren’t as interesting to you, but mostly because the connection is a bit slower due to the distance. Matrix gear renders the far-off devices and personas as dim, muted, or flickering icons

This is why devices at the horizon flicker and sputter with the lag of data travelling from the other side of the globe. In order to interact with a device icon this far from home require some skill and focus. You can zip to the horizon of the matrix while in AR as well, using a window or a camera view. Everything you can do in VR you can also do in AR, just that everything is so much faster and more fluent in VR as it feels like you are really there in first person rather than just viewing it from an augmented reality heads up display.

Even though you moved your perception to the edge of the Matrix you still have the same huge icons above you. The green tinted sky looks the same no matter where in the matrix you move your perception as long as you stay on the Seattle Local Grid. You never have a distance to a host. Speaking of Hosts. The huge icons up there are Hosts. Some large as the island of Manhattan or small cities, they belong to the Big Ten. Others, smaller, in the neural sky represent consumer products or hosts promising darker pleasures. This is the same hosts that you can observe and even enter by using augmented reality from your meat body, but in virtual reality it really feels like you are there.

Between it all are different processes... software... streams of data zip between icons and hosts. Data trails that lit up in different colors with the speed of light only to fade back.



AROs specifically are basically nothing else than public files anchored on physical devices. Normally you view them with augmented reality overlay on the real world that you have in line of sight and filter out the rest because it often make more sense to see the physical entrance to the pub that the giant ARO neon sign is pointing to than just seeing the neon sign ARO pointing down at a pub on the other side of the physical building, but if you like you can also view them from a distance using an augmented reality heads up display or view them while you are in VR.
Title: Re: Questions: Persona in AR, spot Persona, Hide without Silent mode
Post by: Spooky on <06-04-18/1507:32>
If it helps, BedlamTom, think of AR as Google Glasses, and cold sim as a VR google rig with headphones. There is no current day analog to hot sim, yet. However, since datajacks are here and VR environments are improving almost daily, I think we'll see something soon.