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Size of trolls in 6e

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Serbitar

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« on: <08-24-19/1246:26> »
What size are trolls in 6e? How do you see their size compared to their strength that can be 1 now?

Weight goes with size cubed. So if a human with 1.80 m weighs 80 kg, a troll of 2.3m should weigh at least 165kg, and then he is just a big human, trolls are often depicted as even more buff than humans of troll size.


Stainless Steel Devil Rat

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« Reply #1 on: <08-24-19/1251:44> »
Same size they've always been.

As for 1 strength Trolls... the way Special Attribute Points work now that's easier to avoid than it is for a Human character.  But if you don't spend the points, you get a 1.  That's how it is in this edition.

How can something so big have such low strength?  Ask a beached whale why don't they just flop their way back into the water.

Size is not at all the same thing as strength.  I figure a 1 strength Troll is either physically handicapped in some way (maybe a broken back that never healed right) or simply such a couch potato that most of the raw power the big frame has is not used to doing anything more than slowly moving that big frame to the drek bucket or to the microwave. Think of the belly-wheelers in Judge Dredd :D
« Last Edit: <08-24-19/1253:24> by Stainless Steel Devil Rat »
RPG mechanics exist to give structure and consistency to the game world, true, but at the end of the day, you’re fighting dragons with algebra and random number generators.

Nath

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« Reply #2 on: <08-24-19/1346:42> »
Same size they've always been.
Except they haven't always been the same size.

Average height for trolls was 2.8 meters in 1st edition (page 29), 2nd edition (page 38) and 3rd edition (page 47). It was 2.5 meters in 4th edition (page 65). The 5th edition only said they "are more than a half-meter taller than orks" (page 50) but did not say how tall orks were (previous editions had them a 1.9 meters; also Run Faster mentions the 2.35 meters formori metavariant has a shorter stature than troll).

Kiirnodel

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« Reply #3 on: <08-24-19/1955:40> »
Trolls in 5e are still 2.5 meters (page 380)

Either way, they are still the same general size as they've always been. 4th edition shrank them down a little bit.

Serbitar

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« Reply #4 on: <08-25-19/0450:09> »
Good to know, so (2.5\1.8)^3=2.7

Singularity

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« Reply #5 on: <08-25-19/0514:52> »
Think of the belly-wheelers in Judge Dredd :D


Or most of the motorized chair users in your local Walmart!  ;D

Xenon

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« Reply #6 on: <08-25-19/0600:52> »
Average height for trolls was 2.8 meters in 1st edition (page 29), 2nd edition (page 38) and 3rd edition (page 47). It was 2.5 meters in 4th edition (page 65)....
Trolls in 5e are still 2.5 meters (page 380)
SR6 p. 56
• Average height: 2.5 meters
• Average weight: 300 kg
« Last Edit: <08-25-19/0603:01> by Xenon »

penllawen

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« Reply #7 on: <08-25-19/0828:52> »
Just out of idle curiosity, does this dude look 2.5 m to any of you folks?



Even if the elf is on the short side, he should be 1.7 m or so. He's crouched down a bit, so maybe his head is 1.6 m off the floor. The troll looks around 3 m to me, based on that. The elf is barely up to his bellybutton.

(Yes, I know troll and orc physical size has a loooong tradition of inconsistency in Shadowrun artwork...)
« Last Edit: <08-25-19/0836:27> by penllawen »

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #8 on: <08-25-19/1006:43> »
Well if average is 2.5 a 3 meter troll probably isn’t massively unusual. Humans probably have a .25 meter variance within 1 or 2 deviations. Trolls being double that given their almost doubled height seems normal.

Serbitar

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« Reply #9 on: <08-25-19/1123:55> »
If a 2.5m troll weighs 300kg, a 3 meter troll would weigh 500 kg.
This would mean 6 times as much as a standard human. So strength 18-36 or so.

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #10 on: <08-25-19/1159:43> »
No more so than a normal trolls strength range being 9- 18. Or that weight and height scales that precisely. They don’t always go out in each dimension equally.

Shinobi Killfist

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« Reply #11 on: <08-25-19/2202:17> »
As an aside to strength, its been said the new lifting rules are StrxStr  x10 in killograms. So a new standard 2 strength human would lift 40 KG before a test.  Kind of weak but office worker who never goes to the gym etc. Assuming normal racial min+1 is the new average most trolls would have a 5 strength for 250KG, kind of weak given their size IMO.  But lets say a troll that hits the gym occasionally has a 7 strength, or 490 KG, that's a pretty damn solid lift, normal max strength troll 810 KG that's damn close to a ton.  Exceptional strength troll of 10 1000KG, a maxed out with ware troll 14 strength 1960KG before he has to make a test, that's over 2 tons.  Depending on how much you can get out of the test, he might be not just tipping compact cars but outright lifting them and dropping them on you.

Its not perfect but its a heck of a lot better than the previous lifting rules. As for 1 strength trolls or whatever.  I just assume the PCs are effectively mutants, pretty much all NPC trolls in my games will have a base 6 strength, a hilariously weak and constantly mocked troll would have 4. 1 strength just wont exist outside comatose trolls.  Similarly I wont have natural 6 logic trolls, I consider dumb trolls part of the setting and the setting is the one thing Shadowrun always has going for it. Dumb giants have been part of fantasy going back to like the cyclops in the odyssey and fantasy is what 1/2 the setting is from.

Oh and if dragons still have a 40 strength that is 18 tons before they have to make a test.  They are lifting large vehicles and dropping them from the sky on you.
« Last Edit: <08-25-19/2203:53> by Shinobi Killfist »

mcv

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« Reply #12 on: <08-26-19/0400:36> »
I'm not a big fan of that oversized troll on that cover. I've always seen trolls as having more of a basketballer physique than a weightlifter physique, although googling for that one Second Edition image that I think inspired that view, I realize how wrong it is; by far most troll images are very buff.

It's important to keep in mind that attribute values do not represent real world stats like muscle mass or something. A Strength 1 troll still has enough muscles to keep their massive body upright, just not more than that. They're not strong enough to move their massive bulk fast enough to hit very hard, for example, but they can still walk and even run.