[Hanzo]

Good day fellow chummers!

Recenetly I've been attacked by an enemy decker's Brute Force. Is there any way I can find this not-very-good-guy on the spot? He managed to hit me, so I'm aware about his attack on me. Can I find him in a vicinity with my Matrix Perception roll?

Generally it's a question regarding travelling in the Matrix. Does my Persona really travel to the file I want to interract with?

And the second question is: Does a host see my illegal activity when place a mark with the Brute Force?

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Good day fellow chummers!

Recenetly I've been attacked by an enemy decker's Brute Force. Is there any way I can find this not-very-good-guy on the spot? He managed to hit me, so I'm aware about his attack on me. Can I find him in a vicinity with my Matrix Perception roll?

See the Matrix Spotting table, pg. 234 SR5.

If the enemy decker is running silent: it always takes a successful Matrix Perception roll.
If the enemy decker is NOT running silent, and is physically within 100m of you: no Matrix Perception roll is necessary
If the enemy decker is NOT running silent, but is physically more than 100m away from you: it takes a successful Matrix Perception roll.  And don't forget to account for the distance-based Noise, as well!

Generally it's a question regarding travelling in the Matrix. Does my Persona really travel to the file I want to interract with?

you don't "move" in the matrix.  At best, the comparison of where your persona is in the matrix compared to where you physically are is a non-sequitur.
If you want to mess with a file on a host, you first virtually enter said host, even though your physical location hasn't changed.
If you want to mess with a file on a commlink, you just "directly" mess with it, accounting for any distance-based Noise if applicable.

And the second question is: Does a host see my illegal activity when place a mark with the Brute Force?

The target of a successful Brute Force always notices.  However, if you're running silent, it doesn't mean they SEE you.  But if you have a mark on them, they can always see your mark (assuming they can get 1 hit on an unopposed Matrix Perception test...) so they've always got "something" to go on to keep searching for you pass after pass, round after round, until you're spotted... if they go long enough without being able to spot you (or be successful on an Erase Mark action on their own icon), they can also decide to "frag it" and either reboot the device to forcibly erase your mark, or just go wireless-off to remove your ability to communicate with the hacked device.

[Hanzo]

So the mark is required to traceback the Brute Forec attack. Agree!

But then what about the Data Spke action, which requires no marks at all? - pieces of corruption code?

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

It ends up in effect being the same Matrix Spotting answer.

[Xenon]

So the mark is required to traceback the Brute Forec attack.

No....

If you are attacked you take a matrix perception test to spot the offender.
If the offender is running silent then it get to oppose the test.
If not and within 100 meters (or the same host) spotting is automatic.

There is no requirement that you first need to spot the mark he placed on your icon.

,,,what about the Data Spke action

If you are attacked you take a matrix perception test to spot the offender.
If the offender is running silent then it get to oppose the test.
If not and within 100 meters (or the same host) spotting is automatic.

[RickDeckard]

So the mark is required to traceback the Brute Forec attack.

No....


If the offender is running silent then it get to oppose the test.

Question to this: this is opposed by LOG+Sleeze. What if it's simple device running silent, like a smartgun or wired reflexes or commlink? None of these have LOG or Sleeze attributes. 2xDevice Rating?

[Xenon]

Question to this: this is opposed by LOG+Sleeze. What if it's simple device running silent, like a smartgun or wired reflexes or commlink? None of these have LOG or Sleeze attributes. 2xDevice Rating?

If a silent running hacker is using data spike or brute force or another matrix Attack action against your persona or any of your devices you will be immediately alerted about this and this count as if you are now aware of the offender. This is enough for you to attempt to spot the offender (the attacking hacker).

Spotting the attacking hacker is typically resolved as a Matrix Perception test where you roll your Computer skill (which you can default to your Logic attribute in case you don't have any skill ranks in it) + your Intuition attribute [limited by the Data Processing of the device you use to access the matrix with, typically your Commlink].

If the hacker is running silent then he get to oppose the test (otherwise you just need 1 single hit to spot him). The opposing dice pool is in that case equal to the Logic attribute of the silent running hacker + the Sleaze attribute of the silent running hacker's cyberdeck (in case of a decker) or living persona (in case of a technomancer).

If the hacker is not running silent and is in the vicinity (within 100 meters or so) then spotting is automatic.

[RickDeckard]

Question to this: this is opposed by LOG+Sleeze. What if it's simple device running silent, like a smartgun or wired reflexes or commlink? None of these have LOG or Sleeze attributes. 2xDevice Rating?

If a silent running hacker is using data spike or brute force or another matrix Attack action against your persona or any of your devices you will be immediately alerted about this and this count as if you are now aware of the offender. This is enough for you to attempt to spot the offender (the attacking hacker).

Ok, I can buy that, but no one but Deckers have a sleeze stat, so what replaces that stat in an opposed roll?

[Xenon]

Typically it is not replaced at all. Characters that access the matrix via a commlink and then turn their commlink / their persona to silent running will most of the time just roll Logic as a dice pool of its own when someone is trying to spot their specific persona icon.

Note that to spot a specific icon you first need to be aware of the fact that it is out there. There are countless millions of icons in the matrix. You need to have at least some idea of what you are looking for...

[RickDeckard]

Typically it is not replaced at all. Characters that access the matrix via a commlink and then turn their commlink / their persona to silent running will most of the time just roll Logic as a dice pool of its own when someone is trying to spot their specific persona icon.

Note that to spot a specific icon you first need to be aware of the fact that it is out there. There are countless millions of icons in the matrix. You need to have at least some idea of what you are looking for...

I'm sorry, but that sounds wrong. I've never heard or read about defaulting an opposed roll.

If you're a Decker and your target is a piece of cyberware or a gun it's usually because your in a combat situation, which means you're definitely within 100m of your target. In which case you detect one silent running device per hit, not matter what they look like. So I can't believe there's no substitue for Sleeze in that equation.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Xenon is correct.  If a test calls out Sleaze and you don't have it, then you add 0 dice to the pool for your Sleaze contribution.

It is basically true that running silent is largely a waste of time if you're not a Hacker.  All you're doing is costing hostile hackers some action economy.  They WILL succeed in spotting you, but yeah at least you cost them 1 pass for Matrix Perception.  Of course, running silent can have negative social consequences.  For example, a guard may notice your obvious cyberarm, or see your taser in its holster, but if you're not publicly broadcasting AROs for those devices (because you're running them silent) then you may look suspicious in a way that you wouldn't have if you just weren't running silent in the first place.

[Xenon]

I'm sorry, but that sounds wrong. I've never heard or read about defaulting an opposed roll.

Not sure I fully understand what you meant by that.
Just rolling Logic as a dice pool of its own (Logic + 0) is not the same thing as defaulting...

SR5 p. 53 Defaulting
Characters may attempt some skill-based tests even if they don’t have any ranks in the skill. This is known as defaulting. For example, even if you’re not trained in the art of running, you can still attempt a sprint to see just how much ground you can cover. In these instances, your dice pool for the test equals your ranking in the linked attribute – 1. So if Sorsha doesn’t have the Running skill but wants to give a sprint a try, she’ll check her Strength, which is 6. That means she rolls 6 – 1 dice, or 5, and hopes for the best.

within 100m of your target

Distance is not a factor here. The test is resolved in the same way even if the specific device is more than 100 meters away (see SR5 p. 241 Matrix Spotting Table for reference).

In which case you detect one silent running device per hit

You don't detect one silent running device per hit.

The first net hit is used to spot the specific device.
Extra hits are used for analysis of the specific device you just spotted (similar to when you use Matrix Perception to Observe in Detail).

SR5 p. 241 Matrix Perception
Net hits are used just like you would for spotting distant targets, with the first one for spotting the target and the rest for analysis.

I can't believe there's no substitue for Sleeze in that equation.

There isn't.

But in order for the decker to spot your device he first need to be 'aware' of its existence.
He need to first have some idea that a hidden icon is out there.

SR5 p. 235 Running Silent
If you’re trying to find an icon that’s running silent (or if you’re running silent and someone’s looking for you), the first thing you need to do is have some idea that a hidden icon is out there.


To spot a specific device once the decker already have been made aware of its existence is typically not very hard (unless perhaps if the the device is slaved to a Host or a Cyberdeck where it get to add a Sleaze attribute to the opposed test). This is per design.

[RickDeckard]

Ok, I'll go with that then, thanks, chaps. Would've never guessed that's how it works!