[Dinendae]

I would say that it's time they finally sat down and figured out what the hell they want a technomancer to be then. Scratch that, the time to figure that out has long since passed; they should have figured that out in all the time between the release of the 5th Edition Core Rulebook and the release of Data Trails. While in this edition it's clear they swung the pendulum towards "matrix mages," they took away all of the tools Technomancers needed to realize that: Streams, Paragons, even a continuation of 4th edition's temporary complex forms so that Technomancers could be a little more versatile and competent when doing their job in the Matrix.

[dragrubis]

Ok just some question :
- if i have a sleaze attribute around 12 (natural int 8 (gnome with exceptionnal attribute) + infuse sleaze(8 for a) +4 for exemple) i have a good logic (6) and i run silent (+2) how a decker can find me? i throw nearly twenty dice to be invisible in the matrix to every body except god if i do something wrong...
- but i do nothing : i puppet (yeah fading 7 is a trick) the deck of the decker to data spike himself : dommage + 3 (or 4 marks for beeing owner ?) even if a resist it take dommages the decker take his own back spike attack... and he take his own (demi-)god log alert too (yeah i think it's a good use there)

2 CF nothing seeable from nowhere (except an other technomancer or you need to have a deck configured with full détection soft/priorities to have a chance to see me because of limit while hiding is a limitless counterpart)
Charisma useless for this kind of mimetic octopus...

add transcend grid to the list for being able to do this without problem...

About nuyens, with this kind of character i can make nuyen for buying something like cerebral booster or cerebellum booster (yeah upgrade of my virtual deck with nuyen! And to my own attributes too!). Ok, it as a cost on my resonance attribute but, guys : everything has a price...

[Mirikon]

Don't forget the -2 to all actions for sustaining each complex form. So with the two sustained forms, that is a -4, including the roll to puppet the decker's deck. And you're going to have to try and soak that fading damage from each threading attempt, too. All to deal with a single decker. See, your problem is you're thinking PvP or Arena tactics, not PvE or what actually goes on during a run. During a run, a TM who tries to pull off that combo is probably going to knock himself out, if not worse, and be useless for the rest of the run, including the parts where you gotta actually steal the data.

[dragrubis]

Don't forget the -2 to all actions for sustaining each complex form. So with the two sustained forms, that is a -4, including the roll to puppet the decker's deck. And you're going to have to try and soak that fading damage from each threading attempt, too. All to deal with a single decker. See, your problem is you're thinking PvP or Arena tactics, not PvE or what actually goes on during a run. During a run, a TM who tries to pull off that combo is probably going to knock himself out, if not worse, and be useless for the rest of the run, including the parts where you gotta actually steal the data.

Sustaining only infuse sleaze, transcend grid as a duration of (level) minute so only -2 and puppet is immediate. And there is prepared sprites to deal with this during hot moments... or to do the work itself one or two sprite max i think...
and beeing silent is not a problem in this case : you don't use matrix action.
The only thing i try todo there is to show how you can use a technomancer to brick a deck without lot of problem...
And yeah : doing that you have a poor generalist hacker. It's just a way to say stop to "technos are deckers's pets".

And you can sacrifice 1 essence point to buy a smartlink and a datajack at the beginning of the game and seek nuyen to buy upgraded level of each AND/OR upgraded cerebral booster and/or cerebellum booster later in the game doing so your not fully useless out the matrix and boosted inside.
More of that you can be a prototype human with bioware from the start...

[Hobbes]

And you can sacrifice 1 essence point to buy a smartlink and a datajack at the beginning of the game and seek nuyen to buy upgraded level of each AND/OR upgraded cerebral booster and/or cerebellum booster later in the game doing so your not fully useless out the matrix and boosted inside.
More of that you can be a prototype human with bioware from the start...

So much easier said than done.  Actually doing that on a Standard Priority Build means you're either short on stats or short on skill points somewhere.

You're either a paraplegic in a motorized wheel chair, or you're tragically short on skills to pull off a "C" resources or better on a technomancer that intends to compete head to head with Deckers on hacking tests.

[Mirikon]

Hobbes has the right of it, dragrubis. Again, the problem you have is that you're looking at things in isolation. When you're actually in the game, a lot of other things come into play. This is where the general weakness of technomancers runs full on into the inherent straitjacketing of the priority system. Yes, you CAN do certain things. But if you do those things, you've openly gimped yourself in ways a decker doesn't need to worry about, all so you can almost catch up to what a rookie decker does in the matrix.

[Hobbes]

Hobbes has the right of it, dragrubis. Again, the problem you have is that you're looking at things in isolation. When you're actually in the game, a lot of other things come into play. This is where the general weakness of technomancers runs full on into the inherent straitjacketing of the priority system. Yes, you CAN do certain things. But if you do those things, you've openly gimped yourself in ways a decker doesn't need to worry about, all so you can almost catch up to what a rookie decker does in the matrix.

Standard Priority System is some of the issue, Sum to 10 or Karma gen "helps" the relative performance gap between Decker / TM.  But it's a fairly minor part of the problem.  The real issue is that Technomancers need "ALL OF TEH FINGS NAOW!"  Stats, Resonance, Skills, and would it be too much to have a scooter and live indoors please?  And oh, that Edge thing, it sure does look nice on those other characters I play with...

Technomancers need 18ish more skill points and about 8 more stat points to do the exact same things Deckers do, but at -2 dice.  That is a brutal gap to try and overcome in the Priority system.

[Finstersang]

I don't think they can because of the NDAs. But seriously, if it's bothering you that much, try and write up some house rules for it. It's actually a lot harder than you think...

NDA even on just stating "Yeah something´s probably happening sometime" or "Some of us might actually have read a few posts on this thread"?
That sounds like a pretty bad PR strategy. On the other hand, I wouldn´t be too surprised if you´re right 

Regarding the house rules: I actually made some, and they work quite well. Luckily, it´s mainly the balancing and the lack of options that´s crippling the TM. The core system and the Magic-Resonance analogy works, IMO. Tweak some fading values, buff most of the Echoes and maybe even nerf some Sprites a little bit and this whole archetype becomes a lot more appealing. And then you can go on an add some really unique abilities (like forcing offline devices into the matrix, "healing" matrix damage, flux shields against wireless-enabled weapons, threading SINs, ignoring or breaking master-slave-connections, the "laughing man"-hack from Ghost in the Shell S.A.C. etc etc) as Complex Forms or Echoes and voilà, there´s that dreaded Tech-Wizard the public fears and the corps want to poke probes in. Also, there´s a lot of pretty good content to cannibalize in the 4th Ed. Matrix sourcebook Wireless: Streams, Paragons, additional Sprites, and a lot of pretty neat Echoes.

Will probably translate some of my houserules into english and post them in the forum soon. There´s also a whole bunch of other posters who already did some good work there.

Yes, coming up with ideas is hard, but there´s a lot of feedback and great ideas between between all the laments in the fores and also Unwired to draw from. Honestly, i rather have the feeling that the devs are reluctant to admit that TMs are broken and in need of a real fix and not just some extra content (with the beloved 20% crunch / 80% fluff ratio) that stays in line with the current power curve. And probably also that we the players are not just some whiny crybabies who are wrong by default. But that´s another thing...

 

 

[Hobbes]

NDA even on just stating "Yeah something´s probably happening sometime" or "Some of us might actually have read a few posts on this thread"?
That sounds like a pretty bad PR strategy. On the other hand, I wouldn´t be too surprised if you´re right 

NDAs are usually really simple.  You can't communicate to anyone not approved by us on this topic in any way.  Done.  I don't know why an NDA would exclude online communication.  Would be a fairly silly exception to make these days. 

"Yeah something's probably happening sometime" would be handled by "Marketing", not the writers.  I would imagine most of the Freelancers have contributed to projects that wound up never seeing the light of day.  Gaming is a low profit, low volume market.  Seriously, the finances on it are brutal.  Until something is sent to the Printer you never know.

"Marketing" because I don't know that Catalyst has a full time Marketing person.  There are likely a few people that do Marketing activities in addition to what they do full time.

[Club]

If Catalyst does have a marketing person, they spend their time on Reddit and facebook, not their own company's website. Which strikes me as stupid and unprofessional, but whatever.

-----

Thought I'd make a summoner / brawler technomancer. The party shouldn't expect him to be able to do a lot of standard decker stuff, but he's great at combat hacking


 == Info ==
Street Name: Macuahuitl
Name: Rico Enrique
Movement: 6/12
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 0
Public Awareness: 0
Human M Age 17
Height 5'5" Weight 130
Composure: 11
Judge Intentions: 9
Lift/Carry: 3 (15 kg/10 kg)
Memory: 10
Nuyen: 25

== Priorities ==
Metatype: D - Human or Elf
Attributes: B - 20 Attributes
Special: C - Adept, Magician, or Technomancer
Skills: A - 46 Skills/10 Skill Groups
Resources: E - 6,000¥

== Attributes ==
BOD: 2
AGI: 3
REA: 3
STR: 1
CHA: 5
INT: 4
LOG: 4
WIL: 6
EDG: 2
RES: 6

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence:                   6
Initiative:                7 + 1d6
Rigger Initiative:         7 + 1d6
Astral Initiative:         
Matrix AR Initiative:      7 + 1d6
Matrix Cold Initiative:    4 + DP + 3d6
Matrix Hot Initiative:     4 + DP + 4d6
Physical Damage Track:     9
Stun Damage Track:         11

== Limits ==
Physical:                  3
Mental:                    6
Social:                    8
Astral:                    8

== Active Skills ==
Animal Handling            : 0                      Pool: 4
Archery                    : 0                      Pool: 2
Armorer                    : 0                      Pool: 3
Automatics                 : 0                      Pool: 2
Blades                     : 1 [Knives]             Pool: 4 (6)
Clubs                      : 2 [Batons]             Pool: 5 (7)
Compiling                  : 6 [Fault Sprite]       Pool: 12 (14)
Computer                   : 6                      Pool: 10
Con                        : 1 [Fast Talk]          Pool: 6 (
Cybercombat                : 6 [Brute Force]        Pool: 10 (12)
Decompiling                : 1                      Pool: 7
Demolitions                : 0                      Pool: 3
Disguise                   : 5                      Pool: 9
Diving                     : 0                      Pool: 1
Electronic Warfare         : 4                      Pool: 8
Escape Artist              : 0                      Pool: 2
Etiquette                  : 5                      Pool: 10
First Aid                  : 0                      Pool: 3
Forgery                    : 1                      Pool: 5
Free-Fall                  : 0                      Pool: 1
Gunnery                    : 0                      Pool: 2
Gymnastics                 : 4                      Pool: 7
Hacking                    : 1                      Pool: 5
Hardware                   : 1                      Pool: 5
Heavy Weapons              : 0                      Pool: 2
Impersonation              : 1                      Pool: 6
Instruction                : 0                      Pool: 4
Intimidation               : 0                      Pool: 4
Leadership                 : 5                      Pool: 10
Longarms                   : 1 [Shotguns]           Pool: 4 (6)
Navigation                 : 0                      Pool: 3
Negotiation                : 5                      Pool: 10
Palming                    : 5                      Pool: 8
Perception                 : 1                      Pool: 5
Performance                : 0                      Pool: 4
Pilot Ground Craft         : 1                      Pool: 4
Pilot Watercraft           : 0                      Pool: 2
Pistols                    : 1 [Tasers]             Pool: 4 (6)
Registering                : 6 [Fault Sprites]      Pool: 12 (14)
Running                    : 1                      Pool: 2
Sneaking                   : 5                      Pool: 8
Software                   : 1                      Pool: 5
Survival                   : 0                      Pool: 5
Throwing Weapons           : 0                      Pool: 2
Tracking                   : 0                      Pool: 3
Unarmed Combat             : 1                      Pool: 4

== Knowledge Skills ==
Aztechnology Security      : 2                      Pool: 6
Bloodsports                : 3                      Pool: 7
English                    : 3                      Pool: 7
Japanese                   : 1                      Pool: 5
Local Martial Artists      : 3                      Pool: 7
Seattle Matrix             : 2                      Pool: 6
Sioux                      : 1                      Pool: 5
Spanish                    : N                      Pool: 0
Technomancer Theory        : 1                      Pool: 5

== Contacts ==
Aztechnology Security Officer; Az Pyramid; Parasecurity Expert (2, 2)
Private Eye; Downdown (2, 2)
Shadowrunning Technomancer; Not Seattle? (3, 1)
Street Punk; Downtown (1, 2)

== Qualities ==
Codeslinger (Brute Force)
Focused Concentration (Rating 1)
Quick Healer
SINner (Corporate) (Aztechnology)
Technomancer

== Complex Forms ==
Resonance Spike SR5 253   Device   I   L+0
Static Veil SR5 253   persona S   L-1

== Lifestyles ==
Redmond Apartment  2 months, Low

== Armor ==
Armor Clothing                      6
Armor Vest                          9
Lined Coat                          9
   +Chemical Protection 2

== Weapons ==
Defiance EX Shocker
   Pool: 4 (6)   Accuracy: 4   DV: 9S(e)   AP: -5   RC: 2
Defiance T-250, Short-Barrel
   Pool: 4 (6)   Accuracy: 4   DV: 9P   AP: -1   RC: 2
Knife
   Pool: 4 (6)   Accuracy: 5   DV: 2P   AP: -1   RC: 2
Knife
   Pool: 4 (6)   Accuracy: 5   DV: 2P   AP: -1   RC: 2
Ruger Super Warhawk
   Pool: 4   Accuracy: 5   DV: 9P   AP: -2   RC: 2
Stun Baton
   Pool: 5 (7)   Accuracy: 4   DV: 9S(e)   AP: -5   RC: 2
Survival Knife
   Pool: 4 (6)   Accuracy: 5   DV: 3P   AP: -1   RC: 2
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 4   Accuracy: 3   DV: 1S   AP: -   RC: 2

== Commlink ==
Living Persona (ATT: 5, SLZ: 4, DP: 4, FWL: 6)
MCT Blue Defender (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 1, FWL: 5)

== Gear ==
Ammo: Flechette Rounds (Shotguns) x20
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Shotguns) x20
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Heavy Pistols) x20
Ammo: Taser Dart (Tasers) x20
Certified Credstick, Silver
Earbuds Rating 3
   +Select Sound Filter Rating 1
   +Spatial Recognizer
Fake SIN (Jim Sten) Rating 3
   +Fake License (Blunt Weapons License) Rating 3
   +Fake License (Firearms License) Rating 3
   +Fake License (Small Blades License) Rating 3
Flashlight
Flashlight
Glasses Rating 3
   +Image Link
   +Flare Compensation
   +Low Light
Mapsoft (Seattle)
Medkit Rating 2
Micro-Transceiver
Respirator Rating 4
Respirator Rating 3
Restraint, Metal
Restraint, Plastic x10
Survival Kit
Survival Kit

== Background ==
Parents lifelong Aztechnology employees, stationed in the Seattle Pyramid. Emerged as a technomancer at 15, realized how screwed that made him, and trained like a mofo for two years to be as capable as possible for when he had to run. Never did manage to put on much muscle though.

Only recently found sombody to teach him how to do data infiltration, but extensive practice sparring against his own sprites has given him a solid grounding in how to rumble in the matrix. Also good at ferreting out non-secured information.

A somewhat capable martial, with an interest in combat biking, various MMA leagues, and urban brawl. Aztechnology expected him to become a security officer, possibly a field decker after training, and has expressed interest in getting him back, for one reason or another.

== Concept ==
Technomancer who isn't useless in Meatspace. Can't do hosts, shouldn't try to do subtle, but can use sprites and Brute Force to deal with other hackers and people's equipment.