[antaskidayo]

In my given, the limits and movement are are computed with the natural attributes. In my original question, Cyberlimb attributes only kick in if the situation calls for a TEST - now when you start a sprint which is a Running + Stremgth(5), here the Cyberlimb value of STR 6 is used, since this is a TEST that uses the whole body - will the AGI of 6 be used to compute movement only for this action?, temporarily going 24 + 2m/hit ( I believe you can't just sprint using strength alone ), as long as he sustains the sprint.

[jim1701]

Sprinting does not change your base movement rate.  It only tacks on additional meters/turn based on the test.  I can see an argument for cyberlegs affecting the test but that has nothing to do with your base movement rate, ever.

[CitizenJoe]

Under the assumption that running uses the whole body, then hydraulic jacks wouldn't work unless they were also installed in the arms, torso and head... 

Hydraulic jacks are legs only and specifically increase dice for running and jumping.  That would indicate that running and jumping are legs only tests. 

[Marcus]

3. Cyberlimbs are augmentations and thus modify limits and other secondary calculations.

I don't think anyone is fighting for 3.  But I think that proponents of 1 think that proponents of 2 are proposing 3.

RAW is not explicit.  Freelance writers have expressed their opinions.  Historically this argument doesn't get resolved and typically gets locked.

That is the entirety of the debate.  Go talk with your players and GMS about how you want to play your game... which I believe is Catalyst's stance.

I am explicitly saying it is option 3 and I have shown where the rules say it is option 3.  Other argued that  cyber limbs are there own thing that doesn't hold any water, as they are still Cyberware. I keep asking for someone to give me a reference or an errata that shows it is not. But no one has. Freelancer opinions are fine and when they become errata then they are RAW, but until then they are simply as intended and not raw. Your welcome to lock the thread, it doesn't bug me ether way.  But doing something b/c that how it's always been isn't a reason to keep doing it that way after it's been shown to be in error.

[CitizenJoe]

I think we'd need to dip into pregen characters with cyberlimbs to determine intent.  They typically have limits associated with them and movement speeds listed.  So find a pregen with two cyber legs and see what the published movement is.

[Marcus]

I checked that for the core already you, will find that the street Sam p-limit is 8(9) and I assume that is the strength difference on the arms but it is not spelled out. I haven't found a 5th pregen with legs yet but if someone's got one please let me know where to find it.

[happybjorn]

Which is it, did you check or assume?  Does the Street Sam have any ware or PQ that would affect their physical limit that isn't a cyberlimb?  Enhanced Articulation or Indomitable perhaps?

[Reaver]

Please note:

In keeping with tradition, tge Pregen characters in the core book are broken and wrong, so not really a help.

What is exactly broken depends on the pregen. One its essence costs for cyber are wrong. One has an issue with attributes....

So good luck in using them to confirm or deny anything 

[living]

No mention of limits is associated with cyberlimbs by RAW. No mention of movement speed is mentioned pertaining to cyberlimbs in RAW.  Thus we are talking about opinion.
 

The german corerulebook (which clarifys a lot of rules/erratas and is catalyst approved) stats that cimberlimbs does not modify your limits. p. 462 german core rule: "Das heißt sie unterliegen nicht der normalen Begrenzung von +4 auf den aktuellen Attributswert des Charakters, verändern aber auch nicht sein körperliches Limit."

[CitizenJoe]

Street Samurai has  enhanced articulation.  Where we see the rule in effect is all the way down at the bottom with the accuracy of the cyber spurs.  Physical limit is listed as 8[9], which comes from enhanced articulation... Accuracy for the spurs is 9, which comes from physical limit.  So, his spurs, strictly cyber arm use (per example of throwing a punch), uses his enhanced articulation modified physical limit of 9.  The issue there comes from the description of enhanced articulation, which talks about muscles and ligaments... none of which are in cyberlimbs...

So, there we go.  Score one for team 1.

[CitizenJoe]

I would note that none of the pregens have movement speeds listed and damn few have any kind attribute augmentations. 

As to the German printing, that isn't the first time that I've encountered a rule change in the German version.  What I did learn is that Catalyst will 'correct' things in later printing, German and English, without so much as a mention.  So while we're arguing over stuff from a first printing, Catalyst has no reason to enter into the debate because they've already ruled and published.  If you want to know their ruling, you'll have to buy a new copy of the rules.  Take that, Early Adopters.

[living]

btw the german versions are great. pegasus (the german publisher) is doing great. afaik they check every change/interpretation with catalyst (and in some cases the german version is much more specific). it got more artworks. and it's a lot cheaper (core rule book 20 euro print version). the only backdraw is you have to wait longer. i still wait for data trails... so my group got every pdf in english and wait for the german print, to clarify rules and get a hard copy.

[Marcus]

I'm prepared to consider the German version as RAW. Though the google translation I got out of that was as follows:
" This means they are not subject to the normal limit of +4 to the current attribute value of the character , but not change his physical limit . "
Which is doesn't make a ton of sense to me, Can you get more of that section?

[happybjorn]

The simplistic version (although calling my skill with German simplistic would be a complement) is that translate isn't accounting for context.

Begrenzung might be better translated as "restriction" here (the first time the computer translated text comes out as limit).  Note that the second time it comes up it is Limit in the German text as well.

This is, of course, assuming that "limit" appearing twice in the computer translated text is causing the difficulty.

[I_AM_ZHOUL!!!]

I just read the rule you quoted.  Twice.  The term "limit" appears zero times.  I also searched for the term "movement" it too produce zero results.

Do you really need to be walked step by step through the entire process like a slow 7 year old? Cyberlimbs have their own Stats... where do you calculate Strength of the Cyberlimb(s) into the equation for Physical Limit on pg 101? Side note... What does that equation look like? Cause I read it twice and it doesn't have a special Cyberlimb section there that I could find.

Where does the Movement Table on pg 152 have Cyberlimb Agility? I read that twice and couldn't find the special Cyberlimb section there either.