[Dangersaurus]

Good points about single shot weapons Agonar. Using optional rule RG1 from Run & Gun helps with that.

[Sir_Prometheus]

.........THE de facto nerfing of SS weapons was mentioned several times already......

Anyway, while removing the one attack per phase limit does suddenly make recoil matter again, I think limiting attacks to one per phase was one of the best things about 5th ed.  It would also require rebalancing melee attacks by comparison.  I'd much rather just revert to the pre-errata recoil. 

[Medicineman]

They can make one pistol shot in those three seconds, so it's BLAM one thousand, two one thousand, three one thousand.

NoNo, You got it wrong
They can shoot twice with a Pistol, they can make only one Attack. so the second shot has to be in the Air (or somewhere its save )
You could also Double Tap a single Target or even triple Tap
but you can't shoot two adjacent Goons

you can shoot up to 3 adjacent goons as one single complex action + a free action as long as they are within short or medium range and you have a pistol skill of 5+

Remember the effects of cumulative recoil when using this fire mode...

According to German Erratta You could, If You've got two Pistols You can shoot both as complex Action at two Targets.
But thats the only way to affect two targets with Pistols
 

you can shoot up to 3 adjacent goons as one single complex action + a free action as long as they are within short or medium range and you have a pistol skill of 5+

only if You single AM Pistol manages to fire at least 9 Bullets in one Inipass because you need 3 Bullets per Burst/Target ! !
Skill of 5+ is one thing ,mechanical impossibility another
If You've got it differently RAW please post the Page, and I will gladly compare it with my BBB

with an impossible Dance
Medicineamn

[Novocrane]

Semi-Automatic bursts can take advantage of the Multiple Attacks Free Action to fire at multiple targets with the same burst.

[Medicineman]

thanks

I just checked it.But its not in the German BBB (Pg 180)
The passus is only in Long Burst and Full Auto Burst

with a German Dance
Medicineman

[Novocrane]

Oh? The reputation of the German edition is at stake.

[Medicineman]

Oh? The reputation of the German edition is at stake.

Not in My Opinion
I guess it was left out on Purpose becuase it makes no sense to "divide  " aBurst from a Pistol If you can't divide a Burst from Burst Fire Waepons
Without this ...Dividing/Spreading the Burst , teh rest of the Burst Rules are kinda Streamlined (ImO)
But thats a topic for another Thread

with a strweamlined Dance
Medicineman

[martinchaen]

So effectively, Agonar, what you're saying is you haven't played with the errata rules.

Gotcha. That makes your experience just as valuable to the OP as mine, as we both have only played with one system and not the other.

At my table we use the errata version, and no one is overusing the 6 round burst, and one character even has a Warhawk.

So what does this prove? Absolutely nothing, seeing as it's all anectodal. Regardless, with our without errata recoil rules, the game is still patently fun for the players it seems, so who really cares?

Though I wouldn't be surprised if Prometheus makes one last remark and then closes the thread, as per his usual MO...

[Xenon]

A "burst" from semi automatic is you pressing the trigger up to three times in one complex action. Fire a shot. Point the weapon at your target. Fire again. Point the weapon at your target. Fire a third time.

You can do this against one target.

You can also spend a free action to aim the three shots at three different targets. However, all targets need to be within medium range, you need a weapon skill if 5+ and you split the dice pool.

A BF mode weapon is you pressing the trigger once. And the weapon fire 3 bullets within 0.2 seconds. All three will hit roughly at the same place. You can't "split" them on different targets.

A Long Burst with a BF weapon is you pulling the trigger once. The weapon fire 3 bullets on your target. Then you bring your gun to your target and press the trigger once again.

You can do this against one target.

You can also spend a free action to aim the two individually bursts at two different targets. However, both targets need to be within medium range, you need a weapon skill if 3+ and you split the dice pool.

[Xenon]

To fire at different targets with a FA mode weapon you fire controlled bursts on everything (friends and foe) that moves in a frontal cone area (aka suppressive fire).

[MadBear]

I have played both systems. Carried over the same characters from 4th to 5th. And I don't really see much difference in how recoil works between the one and the other. But that is most likely because of our group: A phys/ad, a katana wielding Troll, and my brawler Orc sammie who uses his Ruger more than anything else. I've played a few one-shot runs with a number of characters, mostly with machine pistols, and recoil was never really an issue, under either edition.
I can't speak for Automatics heavy groups though.
My main complaint is still that SS weapons got seriously nerfed. But that's from a game balance perspective. From a realism perspective, there's a reason automatics are more popular/prevalent than SS. Personally I liked 4th ed better, where more than one attack could be taken per Initiative Pass, but with 5th editions progressive recoil carrying over from round to round.

[Xenon]

In earlier editions SA had twice as many attacks than SS. In 5th SA only get one attack action just like SS. Balance wise SS became almost twice as "strong" in 5th when you compare them to earlier editions and SA.

[MadBear]

In earlier editions SA had twice as many attacks than SS. In 5th SA only get one attack action just like SS. Balance wise SS became almost twice as "strong" in 5th when you compare them to earlier editions and SA.

How so? In the case of Long Arms, the SA/BF weapons are all much stronger than their SS alternatives:  the PJSS has only 11P when compared to the SA/BF capable Enfield's 13P, and the SS Remington does only 12P compared the the 12, 13, or 14P of the other Sniper Rifles(only the cheap Ruger 100 does less). Anything using Automatics skill need not even be mentioned. In Light Pistols, the only SS weapon is the Taurus Omni-6, which does damage on par with the other weapons listed; not better at all(6P for the Taurus' SA mode is on par, and there are two other pistols capable of 7P damage at SA which the Taurus has to be in SS mode to fire, a distinct disadvantage). And finally in Heavy Pistols, the Ruger does do one more damage than the Predator, with slightly better Penetration, but 1P extra is nowhere near 'twice as strong'.

There is not a single case where SS weapons stand out as the 'strongest' in the bunch. The Ruger almost outdistances the Ares Predator V, but with the new options from Run and Gun and the errata'd recoil no longer being the hindrance it was before the Ruger no longer really has any advantage over the Ares. Before the errata the Ruger had enough of an advantage for some people to consider it. But not any more. And I see so many discussions fall apart into arguments of what is the 'only choice' when it comes to builds, the Predator is going to be on every single one of those 'essential' builds for the most effective characters.

But were SS weapons so strong they needed to get nerfed to balance things out? Clearly no.

Now, my current character uses a Ruger, and even specializes in Revolvers. Because it's cool, it's fun to play. I don't get bogged down in what is or isn't the 'only choice'. So there's that...

[martinchaen]

Do I think it would be cool if SS weapons like the Taurus Omni-6 and Ruger Super Warhawk had something unique or special going for them; yes.

Do I think it is needed for "balance" reasons; no.

Revolvers are preferred by some (certain police forces, for instance) in real life because they are very reliable; there's very little chance of jamming, for instance, and they are exceedingly easy to clean. However, they have their drawbacks as well. In Shadowrun, maintenance is not really an issue, and so the biggest distinguishing feature between SS weapons like revolvers and bolt action rifles becomes the drawbacks.

Besides ultra-large caliber revolvers and high-precision bolt-action rifles, there really isn't much functional difference between real-world equivalent SS and other weapons. So how do people who feel SS weapons are too weak propose that they be improved or made unique/given an advantage over their SA/BF/FA counterparts? I'm genuinely curious about this, and I'd prefer other solutions than "recoil", because I for one use the Errata rules and feel they are more than adequate.

[Xenon]

Read again. What I typed was that In earlier editions a SA weapon could fire twice. In the same target. Without splitting the pool. Double damage. While SS could only fire once at a target. SS weapons was rather "weak" compared to SA weapons (or SA weapons was rather "strong" compared to SS weapons;  same thing).

In SR5 SS weapons can fire as often as SA weapons. Compared to SA and some of the earlier editions SS weapons  are now roughly twice as "strong" (or SA half as strong while SS is not half as strong.; same thing).

Balance wise SS weapons are at a rather good spot in SR5.