[Sir_Prometheus]

I know you don't get a power point for free when you increase the magic, that's not the question.  But A) the metamagic "power Point" says it's for "adepts", everyone seems to think that's meant for both adepts and mystic adepts but I'm sure that's what they meant at all.  and B) shouldn't you be able to spend 5 karma points per power point (up to your magic, obviously) same as you can during character Gen?  After all, eveything you spend karma on is essentially character advancement, same as in game.  Or maybe 10 karma per power point, doubled how it is for Qualities? 

[Lucean]

A Mystic Adept is supposed to initiate with "Additional Powerpoint" to increase his PP pool. That is the only way.

One could implement a houserule to allow earned ingame-karma to be spent on buying PP up to a maximum of 6 with MAG 6 (or 7 with exceptional attribute), which should cost 10 karma after chargen. But this is only a houserule, although it allows players to start with less than MAG 6 and additionally not force them to spend karma at chargen on powerpoints without permanently losing access to a feature they paid for with priority.

[Xenon]

What is clear is that mystic adepts pay 5 karma per power point during chargen and that they can only buy power points up to their magic rating. Mystic adept is explicit mentioned here. Everything beyond this depend on your reading and if (or when) the editor mean both mystic adept and [physical] adept when they type adept or if they only mean [physical] adept.

You need to be an adept (mystic adept is not explicit mentioned here so it might or might not include mystic adepts as well) to get a free power point each time you raise magic rating and you need to be an adept (mystic adept is not explicit mentioned here so it might or might not include mystic adepts as well) to pick the metamagic Power Point.

Mystic adepts might or might not be able to buy power points up to their magic rating post chargen.
Mystic adepts might or might not get a free power point each time they raise their magic rating.
Mystic adepts might or might not be able to buy the power point metamagic when they initiatite.



Missions errata let mystic adepts buy power points for 5 karma per point, instead of 2, up to their starting magic rating (and depending on your reading this was not actually explicit to just chargen). However, the wording they used was not carried over into the official SR5 errata

[Sir_Prometheus]

Well, no, the book is very explicit that mystic adepts DO NOT get a free power point when raising magic.

But it's unclear to me that they're even allowed to use the metamagic, or that they're not allowed to spend karma on more power points up to magic. Everyone seems to take as gospel that the metamagic is the only way -- but as far as I can tell that's just an assumption, not a read as written ruling.

[RHat]

Well, no, the book is very explicit that mystic adepts DO NOT get a free power point when raising magic.

But it's unclear to me that they're even allowed to use the metamagic, or that they're not allowed to spend karma on more power points up to magic. Everyone seems to take as gospel that the metamagic is the only way -- but as far as I can tell that's just an assumption, not a read as written ruling.

It's frankly a pretty ridiculous reading otherwise, because that's not a listed exception to Mystic Adepts being as Adepts - but either way, I'm pretty sure the devs have confirmed that the metamagic works.

[Xenon]

Mystics pay karma for pp during chargen.

Post chargen "adepts" get free pp each time they raise magic. When "adept" initiate they can pick the "adept only" meta magic.

Why is the first "adept" excluding mystics and why is the second "adept" including mystics?

[Lucean]

Mystics pay karma for pp during chargen.

Post chargen "adepts" get free pp each time they raise magic. When "adept" initiate they can pick the "adept only" meta magic.

Why is the first "adept" excluding mystics and why is the second "adept" including mystics?

Because of the errata saying so:
If you’re an adept, you get a free Power Point whenever you increase your Magic attribute (though this doesn’t apply to mystic adepts), and you can gain a Power Point through Initiation (p. 324) instead of gaining a metamagic.

But it's not entirely clear, as this sentence has 2 opening brackets and only one closing ... So if you put the missing closing bracket where I put it, all adepts can gain PP via initiation and mystic adepts can't gain PP by increasing magic.

[Xenon]

Fair enough

[Zar]

Because Mystic Adepts require so many different attributes that I do not see the reason to limit non-initiates with Character Generation only power points.  While I do agree that they should spend the karma at Character generation, afterwards I allow them to get Power Points with the increase in Magic score for free.  I think it boils down to how your group plays.  The whole reason these limits were made was to curb power-gamers from choosing to be a mystic adept just to play a mage with extra initiative passes.  The player in my group who made a Mystic Adept gave up on the idea after a couple adventures.  There was just too many things he wanted to do with not enough Karma to do it.

[Eoghammer]

Mystic adept will NEVER be able to astral project...
In my game, i will allow MA to take up to magic PP at the expense of 5 karma but they will not have access to the adept option to take PP instead of Metamagic

[ZeConster]

afterwards I allow them to get Power Points with the increase in Magic score for free.

Prior to the errata, I got into a pretty heated debate with someone about why I think Mystic Adepts should not get PP for free if they raise their Magic - where normally a Mystic Adept's effectiveness is X% Magician, Y% Adept (where X+Y is more than 100%), giving them a free PP when they raise their Magic would unlock 100%/Y% and X%/100% character advancement routes, since they'd get both the Magician and Adept benefits from raising their Magic.

If you houserule that Mystic Adepts who raise their Magic can get a Power Point from doing so, you should add a Karma fee (you could either make it cost 5 extra Karma, or simply use 6 x [new Magic Rating] instead of 5 x [new Magic Rating]).

[Sir_Prometheus]

Yeah -- you're all voicing opinions, none of you are really backing it up with anything. 

Also, I have no idea why power-points going up with magic for MAs keeps on coming up -- that's clearly banned by the rules, make another thread if you want to talk about houserules. 

There's two relevant sections: 

Pg. 326

Power Point (Adepts Only): If you’re an adept, you
gain a Power Point instead of a metamagic. You can take
this as many times as you like.

This says adepts only.  Does that include Mystic Adepts?  Maybe, but they make a big deal about separating Mystic Adepts and Adepts in other sections.  So, I'm not really sure that MAs can even take the metamagic.   Maybe they can, I'm just saying from the words on the paper, it's not clear.  If someone has a developer quote from somewhere, that's great, please let me know. 

Mostly pg. 71

adepts must purchase Power Points using Karma at the
cost [5] Karma per full Power Point. The maximum number
of Power Points Mystic Adepts may have is equal to their
Magic rating. These points would be purchased during
Step Seven: Spending Your Left Over Karma (p. 98).

Now, this is during the chargen stage, but it should be noted the karma is spend at the last stage, which is otherwise the same as spending karma in-game.  SO WHY does everyone assume you can't buy power points (up to your magic) in-game, either?

Also, if you can't, if you can only get new power points via the metamagic -- which again, everyone assumes but I don't see good evidence for-- then it leads to this sorta weird situation where a Mystic Adept is never going to get any metamagics, the power point is always going to be more useful. 

[Eoghammer]

POWER POINTS AND MAGIC CLARIFICATION
(P. 279, POWER POINTS PARAGRAPH)
Change to following sentence: “You get a free Power Point
whenever you increase your Magic attribute, and you can gain
a Power Point through Initiation (p. 324) instead of gaining
a metamagic.” To: “If you’re an adept, you get a free Power
Point whenever you increase your Magic attribute (though this
doesn’t apply to mystic adepts, and you can gain a Power Point
through Initiation (p. 324) instead of gaining a metamagic.”

extract from errata... to be correct....

[Sir_Prometheus]

OK, fair enough, I missed that, thanks.  So that removes the first point, just leaving the second -- why can't they buy power points through karma? 

[Zar]

I guess because 5 points for a power point is too cheap during game play and they didn't want to add another paragraph to the book about how it costs more.