[WellsIDidIt]

So, it's ok for all security forces to have piss poor security standards because some have piss poor security practices in real life? That's a really flimsy stance. Most security firms do not have poor practices and standards despite how easy things would be if they did. Yes, sometimes people make mistakes and slip up, but with the current rules, everyone always makes mistakes and slip up because the system is designed that way. It's not a valid argument.

It's not that it doesn't happen. It's that it shouldn't always happen.

Your argument fails right off the bat. It isn't beneficial for security to be poor. It doesn't matter how often runners come and attack, security is there to prevent it. Why would security be hired, trained, and equipped, but then handicapped? It makes no sense.

And no, the state of security and paramilitary tech in SR in no way reflects what I've seen in real life. It reflects civilian tech in most degrees, and really only civilian tech of people that don't care about security.

It's not a problem that doesn't exist. It's pretty much the first thin that happens in the game with a smart decker.

[ProfessorCirno]

You're the one obsessed with this somehow being "piss poor security standards."  Does connecting my computer to the internet constitute as "piss poor security practices?"  Because that's the comparison you keep trying to make here.

[RHat]

The problem is that they used to have the processing power to do it themselves.

This statement is premised upon the assumption that the mechanical changes to things like Smartlink represent in-setting changes.  However, that assumption is false - the idea is that smartlinks are now considered to always have operated as SR5 has the non-wireless version work, and wireless bonuses are newer functionality.

[WellsIDidIt]

Yeah, no, it's not. It's looking at the fluff of the current system and comparing it to past fluff.

You're the one obsessed with this somehow being "piss poor security standards."  Does connecting my computer to the internet constitute as "piss poor security practices?"  Because that's the comparison you keep trying to make here.

If you're "computer" is actually a piece of security/military hardware, then yes it does.

As a civilian, it depends on how secure you want to be.

I don't connect the computer that I keep records and NDA work on, because that isn't secure. My clients would have an absolute fit if they new I kept it on an computer with access to the internet. I don't work with anything near as valuable as most security contractors in SR do. Would it be easier and faster to keep it connected and send work back and forth by email? Sure. That isn't secure though.

[RHat]

Yeah, no, it's not. It's looking at the fluff of the current system and comparing it to past fluff.

Oh, it most certainly is.  Think about your argument in the context that in the SR5 fluff, it always worked like that, that there wasn't a change.

[Namikaze]

You guys are thinking of this all wrong.  The reason the processors don't do things like they used to is because the corps have purposefully downgraded their processing power in exchange for the ability to control the flow of data and power via their Matrix.  Remember that GOD is separated from the corps only by the thin red line of bureaucracy.  The corps still own the Matrix, we just borrow it from time to time.

Also, you have to accept that what wireless is used for now might not be the same as it will be a hundred years from now.  I get that the medkit is the prime example of why wireless bonuses make sense, but that's only because it makes sense to us now.  Most of the wireless bonuses are there for two reasons: to encourage players to use wireless at the risk of being hacked; and to provide a skill point bonus that isn't otherwise there.  The limit is increased regardless, but we're talking about 1 or 2 dice, which isn't even a success (statistically speaking).

It's not game-breaking, it's a mechanic with a purpose, and even if it's not 100% logical it still has that purpose.  And also, it's possible that Data Trails might utilize this mechanic even more.  So let's not argue about whether or not the wireless bonuses belong in the game because we don't know the whole story.  Let's instead argue about whether or not the bonuses are game-breaking, unbalanced, etc.  Since this topic is never brought up, I can only surmise that no one thinks the bonuses are really all that bad.  We're all just looking for something to disagree about.

[RHat]

You guys are thinking of this all wrong.  The reason the processors don't do things like they used to is because the corps have purposefully downgraded their processing power in exchange for the ability to control the flow of data and power via their Matrix

This reasoning doesn't work - runners and mercs would respond by slapping together their own hardware very, very easily.

[WellsIDidIt]

Yeah, no, it's not. It's looking at the fluff of the current system and comparing it to past fluff.

Oh, it most certainly is.  Think about your argument in the context that in the SR5 fluff, it always worked like that, that there wasn't a change.

Which is tossing continuity out the window, which shouldn't happen. If you have to throw out continuity to justify a mechanic, it's always better to rethink the mechanic. Saying, "Oh, uhm...it never worked the way it did in 2065," is poor design. Did 2065 never exist in SR 5? This isn't about switching from dicepool bonus to limits. This is about the little bits that explain the wireless bonuses away as having to have matrix access when they didn't use to.

Handwavium is not a valid way to build a setting. It's like watching a good movie crumble in the end.

The reason the processors don't do things like they used to is because the corps have purposefully downgraded their processing power in exchange for the ability to control the flow of data and power via their Matrix

Not really viable. A.) There would just be a blackmarket supply of old processors, B.) People would just use the old tech with powerful enough processors to do what the device is supposed to do, and C.) the corp is having to use the same tech for their own personnel, there is no reason to handicap themselves.

[RHat]

Yeah, no, it's not. It's looking at the fluff of the current system and comparing it to past fluff.

Oh, it most certainly is.  Think about your argument in the context that in the SR5 fluff, it always worked like that, that there wasn't a change.

Which is tossing continuity out the window, which shouldn't happen. If you have to throw out continuity to justify a mechanic, it's always better to rethink the mechanic. Saying, "Oh, uhm...it never worked the way it did in 2065," is poor design. Did 2065 never exist in SR 5? This isn't about switching from dicepool bonus to limits. This is about the little bits that explain the wireless bonuses away as having to have matrix access when they didn't use to.

Handwavium is not a valid way to build a setting. It's like watching a good movie crumble in the end.

It's an extraordinarily minor retcon at most.  As these things go, it's nothing.   It could also be read as a different mechanical representation of basically the same thing.

[$/@mm-0!]

Not sure if it was mentioned as I am kinda tired but with the decks being the only thing able to hack it goes from joe blow hacking with a comlink to needing at least a 50k deck and skills to hack peoples gear. This might make things a little more secure (and now I see why they are so expensive again and decks are back) But honesty as it was said earlier Who cares its just a game  If it is really that much of a issue take it out of your games or see if data trails gives some incite on the wireless boni.

[All4BigGuns]

There's a few responses here.  I mean, i could launch.

But my actual response inevitably is: Because it's a game.

Every edition has changes.  Some make no sense in comparison to previous editions.  Some things in previous editions won't make sense compared to new ones.  I mean, this goes like 500% for a sci-fi game.  If you went by the stats, half the runners in the world were dwarves for a few years, then suddenly they're all orks, and now they're almost all humans.  I mean, previous editions told us that in dates still in the future we wouldn't have developed wireless internet access yet.  In retrospect that's either quaint or stupid, depending on how generous you're feeling.

But if you really want fluff ansewrs, here we go.

Think of it this way: a few years ago I kept all my data on hard drives, but chunky ones to (that in retrospect held actually very little).  Nowadays I keep most my non-secretive data in emails.  I literally just email myself schedules, work files, important dates, etc.  I don't even OWN physical storage outside of one or two USBs I use to transfer stuff to one of my work computers, which has a janky broken internet connection.  I am not alone in this!  Theoretically this makes me more open to be hacked.  I don't actually care.  Most people don't.  I don't keep a physical contact book.  NOBODY I KNOW keeps a physical booklet with all the contact info for people.  Technically, could my cell phone or my Google account be hacked, giving access to all the various emails or phone numbers I don't care to keep track of?  Yes!  This is a huge security downgrade from literally carrying a book!

It would not in any way, shape, or form surprise me if mandatory net access actually increased in how common it is.  In a setting where the Matrix is intended to be ubiquitous, it would not surprise me in the slightest of stuff was created explicitly to only work fully when connected to it.  For runners, this is the opposite of progress - but this isn't designed for runners.  For the people these products are ACTUALLY manufactured for, everyone from corpsec to civilian gun nuts, this isn't noticeable.  More and more people every day are keeping their credit card and personal info on their cell phones.  Does this seem safer then carrying it in your wallet?  I'm sure lots of people would loudly proclaim: "Good lord, no!"  But it sure is more convenient!  So the new smartlinks are designed explicitly to work over the Matrix,  For Runners this is a potential security hole.  For everyone else, this represents a smartlink that can be surgically implanted into your eye without needing to scoop out the things with a melon baller and replace them with cameras or give you horrifying data ports in your hands.  For runners, having to connect your reaction boosters and wired reflexes to the matrix is a way to access your implements from someone you don't know.  For everyone else, it's  way to ensure your gear is always working at tip top capacity and that potential issues can be fixed through the Matrix without ever requiring you to see the doctor.  And, most importantly, for corps, it means everyone who buys their product is now ALSO a tester and data collector of their product, so hey, they win out all around.

Convenience and profits always win in Shadowrun.  Always.  Every single time they win out. 

The other thing to recall is that you kinda have to push SR4 to the side.  SR4 was where the game started to run away from the "cyberpunk" aspect and embrace the "transhuman" aspect, except those two things are pretty much at odds with each other.  Cyberpunk is almost by definition a dystopia.  It's not a genre where technology owns and always makes everyone's life easier and you never make any sacrifices for it.

And hey, if you want a third excuse/reason, here we go: because cyberpunk is meant to capture the fears of the time and broadcast them onto the future.  In the wake of information theft fears and personal data being sold willy nilly, "your information and personal details are broadcast at all hours" seems like just the thing to add to a dystopia.

Honestly, IMO, all this is just a bunch of wafer-thin excuses for a mechanic that could have been all right and was pretty cool in theory but that turned out as nothing more than "Oh, hey Mr. Decker! You don't ever have to touch a non-hacking skill ever again to outright 'omgwtfbbq' a Street Sam in combat."

[RHat]

Honestly, IMO, all this is just a bunch of wafer-thin excuses for a mechanic that could have been all right and was pretty cool in theory but that turned out as nothing more than "Oh, hey Mr. Decker! You don't ever have to touch a non-hacking skill ever again to outright 'omgwtfbbq' a Street Sam in combat."

Except, you know, the street sam can still keep coming after you brick all his stuff.

[All4BigGuns]

Honestly, IMO, all this is just a bunch of wafer-thin excuses for a mechanic that could have been all right and was pretty cool in theory but that turned out as nothing more than "Oh, hey Mr. Decker! You don't ever have to touch a non-hacking skill ever again to outright 'omgwtfbbq' a Street Sam in combat."

Except, you know, the street sam can still keep coming after you brick all his stuff.

Except, you know, that Decker is probably sitting safe and sound in a nice armored van (possibly even several blocks away), and the now slow as molasses--comparatively--Street Sam gets ground into bite-sized chunks of hamburger by the Decker's friends.

[Xenon]

Not quite a rules question (since the rules are pretty clrear)...

It's clear that the designers decided that devices with wireless on get a bonus because they can be hacked.  However, can anyone come up with any explanation of why this would be the case?  If anything, wired should have an advantage over wireless (less interference, higher bandwidth, etc).

My theory is that in the shadowrun world wireless have less latency / have higher bandwidth / have less interference / is faster.

(Crazy i know but) If you have that mindset then wireless bonus start to make a lot of sense.

[RHat]

Honestly, IMO, all this is just a bunch of wafer-thin excuses for a mechanic that could have been all right and was pretty cool in theory but that turned out as nothing more than "Oh, hey Mr. Decker! You don't ever have to touch a non-hacking skill ever again to outright 'omgwtfbbq' a Street Sam in combat."

Except, you know, the street sam can still keep coming after you brick all his stuff.

Except, you know, that Decker is probably sitting safe and sound in a nice armored van (possibly even several blocks away), and the now slow as molasses--comparatively--Street Sam gets ground into bite-sized chunks of hamburger by the Decker's friends.

Were that true, he probably wouldn't have succeeded at the hack in the first place.