[Novocrane]

What's wrong with a datatap?

[Triskavanski]

Its not really a direct connection. At least by the rather poorly defined direct connection that only talks about how normal people do it

When i get back home im gonna update the handbook on this

[SlowDeck]

Data taps also require you to plug something into the universal adapter port on them. While male technomancers may have something they can try to plug into a UAP if nature has been unkind to them, technomancers don't actually have anything that doesn't interfere with Resonance or their ability to use their persona that they can use. They could plug in a device and enter it, then try to enter the data stream from the device... but I'm not finding anything in the rules that support them doing this (or anything that says they can't, either). I may be missing a section, though.

Basically, from a practical standpoint, data taps are for deckers.

[Novocrane]

I'm going to take it as RAI that was cornered in a back alley during editing, then. It's a wireless device, and (while this doesn't support anything per se ...) the core archetype TM has one.

[Triskavanski]

All of this is why i mentioned that to really pkay a technomancer youve got to talk to your gm.

[SlowDeck]

I'm going to take it as RAI that was cornered in a back alley during editing, then. It's a wireless device, and (while this doesn't support anything per se ...) the core archetype TM has one.

Actually, under the way it's written up, it's not really a wireless device. Here's a copy of the text:

Data Tap: You use this hacking tool by attaching it to
a data cable. Once it’s clamped onto the cable, you can
use it via universal data connector. Any device directly
connected to the data tap also has a direct connection
with the devices on either end of the cable (see Direct
Connections, p. 232) and vice versa. The tap can be removed
without damaging the cable.
Wireless: The data-tap can be wirelessly commanded
to self-destruct as a Free Action, immediately and
instantly severing the direct connection. This does not
harm the cable.

Basically, under the way a data tap is written up, the only wireless functionality it has is to blow up. It's one of those "wireless" devices that isn't actually wireless.

Then again, the book itself talks about all data being on the Matrix and all actions involving decking and hacking using the Matrix... and then in security mentions wired systems that are not on the Matrix, which require special devices to gain access but can otherwise be apparently hacked as normal. Which, in turn, suggests there may be entire grids and hosts which are not on the Matrix. If taken as a whole, the rules on Matrix access and what is on the Matrix and who can access what are pretty much GM fiat. Hopefully, the Matrix book clarifies this so the apparent contradiction makes sense.

[Xenon]

Wireless bonus does not list all wireless functionality a device have. only extra bonuses.
There are a lot of wireless devices that don't even have wireless bonuses at all
(but have wireless functionality)

A commlink, for example,
commlink does not even have a wireless bonus at all
...does that mean commlink dont have wireless functionality? 
-Of course not!





SR5 p. 360 Wired Security
Wired networks are still vulnerable in many of the same ways as wireless networks. If a wire is breached and tapped anywhere along its length, the signals can be intercepted and retransmitted via wireless anyway.

How do you breach and tap a data wire?
- With a data tap....

TM (or a decker) use wireless data tap on a wired network to access the network wireless.


So get a wireless connection to a wired (wireless OFF) device is not an issue.
However, to get a direct connection you have access the data tap with a cable (to your cyberdeck).

SR5 p. 440 Data Tap
Any device directly connected to the data tap also has a direct connection with the devices on either end of the cable

Then again, a wired (wireless OFF) device does not have access to the Matrix
Hosts only exist within the Matrix (hosts can not exist outside of the matrix)

SR5 p. 216 Host
A self-contained place in the Matrix. Hosts have no physical location, as they exist purely in the Matrix cloud.

So,
while hacking wired networks you don't need to establish a direct connection to bypass host ratings.


This all mean that a TM does not have any harder time snooping a wired network than a decker have
...probably also why the TM archetype on p. 122 carry a data tap



However, this might also mean a TM can't establish a direct connection with her Living Persona to a wireless device slaved to a high rating Host by using a data tap or a wire attached to the universal data connector of the device. THIS is where TM's lack. THIS is why TM's, imo, should start with a "skin link" echo per default. That let them establish a direct connection to devices they physically touch.

Since using a cyberdeck with a direct connection bypass host ratings and since TMs can use the same hacking skills while on her Living Persona as if she is using a persona formed on a cyberdeck (new in SR5) a TM can use a regular cyberdeck if she want to hack devices slaved to a high rating host. it is a nice workaround, but imo not good enough.

some claim you might get a direct connection if you use a living persona, a cable that attach one end to the universal data connector of the wireless slaved device you want to hack and the other end to trodes you have on your head... but i don't really find any support for that in the book.

[SlowDeck]

Xenon, consider this bit about wireless function:

Wireless-enabled items can prevent theft or monitor
the item’s functionality and alert the user of any malfunctions
via their personal area network. For instance, in bone
lacing, sensor tags are a convenient way of monitoring for
stress fractures and other complications. A hacker can’t
hack into your bone lacing and break your bones, but a
hacker can tell your bone lacing that your bones are broken,
causing your bone lacing to tell your commlink to call
DocWagon, or tell your medkit that you need painkillers.

That's from the main section on wireless functionality on pages 420-421. The short of the entire section: A wireless function can be entirely different from the device's main function.

Now note that having both wireless functionality and having a universal access port is considered default. The vast number of items with wireless bonuses don't include special text saying you can only use them wirelessly. Now, here's what it states about the data tap:

You use this hacking tool by attaching it to
a data cable. Once it’s clamped onto the cable, you can
use it via universal data connector.

Now, ask yourself why, considering that wireless and UAP usage being both possible by default, it is they specified UAP usage on this one. Not "you can use this to get a direct connection via universal data connector," but "you can use this via universal data connector." As worded, it's not saying you use UAP for a specific function, as you are arguing, but that using the device at all is UAP. And while the rules do state that tapping into a wired network can allow you to rebroadcast the wired signal wirelessly, they do not state it would be the data tap doing the rebroadcasting.

Which goes back to what I said about TMs plugging a device into the data jack and connecting wirelessly through it. And what you said about a TM potentially not being able to establish a direct connection.

[martinchaen]

Yes, the rules are ambiguous. Check with your GM, and if he doesn't allow Technomancers to access a data tap wirelessly, ask him why he feels like humping an entire archetype.

The rules don't need to make sense "as written", they just Ned to make sense. In this case, it doesn't exactly take a lit if mental agility to consider the options and making a fair ruling if you ask me.

[Xenon]

You "can" use it via...

This wording does not rule out that you can "also" connect wireless (they mention it specifically because you dont get a direct connection unless you use a cable… so with a [normal] wireless connection you dont bypass master ratings if the device is slaved to another device).



Yes. Wired Security is not spelled out that you use a data tap to breach and tap a wired network for data... but seriously, what other device do you suggest we use if not a Data Tap...?

[firebug]

Do you plan on including a section on augmentations that are worth getting for a TM?  As you stated, Pain Editor is extremely useful (it even improves your Willpower, which I am sure you would love).  Your opinion on Cerebral Boosters would be useful (you seem to find Logic to be rather unimportant despite it being used for a lot of the most commonly used actions).  I love my Skilljack/Skillwires combo on Firebug, using Diagnostics on the Skilljack (which is what's running all the skillsofts, whether knowledge or active, and allows me to swap them without messing up the Sprite Power).

And the usefulness of drugs like Psyche for hacking or Cram to help your meatbody.

They are currently the only character capable of getting the full 5d6 dice in the matrix.  in 4th edition there is a echo (that ports over easily and will probably be in the matrix book) that let's them use their full VR initiative but in meatspace, as long as they only take as many actions in meat that they would normally.  So a Technomancer with a couple submersions could get those two echos and bet one of the first people to get an action for either matrix or meat.

Mesh Reality.  God that was such a badass echo, and it was kinda vital to the concept I had (that being a dronomancer combat biker).  I hope so badly that it comes back, but I have no idea how it'd be implemented.  Still, it would really give TM's something unique and super-cool that wouldn't be terribly unbalanced.  Compared to AR hacking with wires, the decker may have less of a bonus to their dice pool, but they can also take more meat actions.  Plus it's not like the TM didn't pay Karma for it; considering in 4th it would have taken a minimum of 29 Karma to achieve if you got it as early as possible and nothing else.

[SlowDeck]

Xenon-

Unless specified otherwise, "can" does not indicate existence of other options; it indicates capacity to use a particular option. In normal usage, the word "can" even shows up often when there are no other usage options. Given that the data tap itself uses a specific wording in a case where that specific wording is not needed unless it is an exception to the normal rule, the specific wording indicates that normal usage does not apply. In this case, the specific wording indicates the usage of the data tap to get into a wired network only works through the UAP.

Note the above does not contradict the rule section that indicates the signals in a wired network can be transmitted wirelessly; it just specifies that the data tap doesn't do such. I can think of several other items in the pages before it that are candidates for doing such.

I do agree that the data tap is what you're intended to use to tap into wired security.

And, personally, I agree with more common sense rulings that it should broadcast wirelessly and let TMs use it for direct connection either wirelessly or with a touch. But at the same time, I'm pointing out that data taps are not that useful for TMs where a wired network is concerned as both TMs and data taps are currently written. It's easily fixed, but there's still going to be GMs potentially screwing over technomancers simply because they don't see any way the TM can be anything except a bullet catcher when the team is up against a wired network.

[Xenon]

I dont agree. Data Tap is used wireless like 99.9% of all SR5 devices. If it can not be used wireless then it would specifically state that (in SR5 all devices have wireless capability by default - everything you can do with a wire you can do wireless... unless explicit stated otherwise). Here are a few examples from the book of devices that lack wireless capabilities.

"Certified Credstick ... 're not even wireless - you have to slot them into a universal data connector to ..."

"Datachip … have no wireless capability, so you need to plug them into a universal data connector ... if you .."

"Throwbacks can't be accessed by wireless connection ... cant be controlled remotely or get wireless bonus ... have universal data connector, so you can ..."


Cant access them wireless. You need to. You have to.


Data Tap does not state you "cant use it wireless". That you "need" or "have to" use a wire. Devices with no wireless capability does not (ever) have a wireless bonus. Some wireless devices, including but not limited to data tap, have wireless bonus.

Besides accessing the data tap in the "normal" wireless way you "can" use it via universal data connector. Something you cant do with a data tap is to establish a wireless direct connection. To establish a direct connection you use a data cable directly into the universal data connector of the data tap.


As for Wired Security. The only device that let you "breach" a cable (attaching it to a data cable) and "tap" it for data is the data tap. I cant see how you can accomplish it without a data tap.

...but out of curiosoity...
In your reading what "several other items" let you do that...?

[Triskavanski]

On the Subject of RAW vs RAI..

If a GM is going strictly by RAW, taking the Mind over Machine echo would give you a universal data connector cable, as its a benifit of having a control rig.

RAI, Well then we can work with GM on things. ^^

[Xenon]

are you suggesting that the mind over machine echo give your living persona a data jack and one meter of retractable cable....