Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => The Secret History => Topic started by: Furious Trope on <05-23-14/2214:30>
-
All the talk about Immortal Elves has me thinking: How do you tell if your friend Dave The Elf is immortal versus Joe Metaplot?
Mechanically, the main difference between any old immortal elf and the likes of us is the immunity to age, disease, and toxins.
Which means the obvious way to tell if Dave is immortal or not is to try and kill him with poison and see if it sticks. Talk to a doctor before doing this. Or not. You might not like Dave.
How else might you tell if a particular elf is immortal?
-
Are any of the immortal Elves mundane? 5 hits on an Assensing test would do it, as they're bound to have a he'll of a magic score if history is any indication.
Other than that, spend ... X years with them. When you hit 80, they'll look the same, as they always have, no?
How about... Asking them :-)
How any immortal Elves are there, anyway?
-
All the immortal elves are magicians, I believe. As for how to tell if an elf is an immortal elf or not? Unless they are one of only maybe a dozen elves on the face of the planet, they aren't. But to know for sure, see how the founders of the Tirs treat them, and you'll get a clue. Oh, and just waiting 80 years or so won't do jack, since even normal elves have a life span of several centuries.
-
Are any of the immortal Elves mundane? 5 hits on an Assensing test would do it, as they're bound to have a he'll of a magic score if history is any indication.
Ah ah ah...Masking.
-
Are any of the immortal Elves mundane? 5 hits on an Assensing test would do it, as they're bound to have a he'll of a magic score if history is any indication.
Ah ah ah...Masking.
This is why I'm suggesting poison.
And a cutout.
Maybe two.
-
According to the reply in my thread there are 24 immortals including one human currently canon wise and I believe they can identify immortal elves at least due to specific genetic markers. Although thsis raises the question who would the racist elves treat a human looking immortal elf.
-
According to the reply in my thread there are 24 immortals including one human currently canon wise and I believe they can identify immortal elves at least due to specific genetic markers. Although thsis raises the question who would the racist elves treat a human looking immortal elf.
I have to imagine there are probably a few thousand IEs...or were. Maybe Sirrurg killed a lot of them.
But I read a post by Ancient History and Frank Trollman, and they were talking about how most of the elven population was only 18 when the Tirs were founded. Tír na nÓg could have gotten away with having few IE's seeing how they had a pretty bloodless secession from Britain. But Tir Tairngire had a rather violent clash with the Salish-Shidhe Council. And I highly doubt that an army of children would have been able to hold off the SSC military. So I assume that Tir Tairngire had a pretty decent population of IEs, at least a few hundred.
And I'd imagine that what IEs were left were more than happy to have their own nation back, at least at first. Obviously politics ate them away from the inside and caused the whole mess to fall apart, and probably scattering the disenfranchised IEs and reminded them why the 4th World sucked. But that's only me guessing.
-
That brings up a question... Does Tir na nOg have all of its territory back yet? Because the last time I looked at that myth, the entirety of the British Isles were well inside their domain. And the Celts extended quite a bit into Western Europe. So right now, they could only be holding a fraction of what was once their's.
-
Although thsis raises the question who would the racist elves treat a human looking immortal elf.
You seem really hung up on this, dude. Seriously, just talk to your GM and tell him you don't want your character to die of old age, ever, and figure out what will work in your game.
I have to imagine there are probably a few thousand IEs...or were.
I don't think there's much in the text to support that kind of imagination.
-
Just see if they mix their 80's pop-culture references with Milton quotes in a smugly arrogant self-referential way.
-
According to the reply in my thread there are 24 immortals including one human currently canon wise and I believe they can identify immortal elves at least due to specific genetic markers. Although thsis raises the question who would the racist elves treat a human looking immortal elf.
All of the known IEs except Aina and Urdli are caucasian (Caucasian caucasian, given the location of Barsaive). Aina was arguably the most powerful and oldest alongside Alachia. Urdli ... I don't think they even know how to deal with him. But they've all generally been around long enough that they don't give a shit about physical appearance. The average elven height hasn't changed between ED and SR, but humans have evolved in the last several millennia to the point that there are countries where the average adult height exceeds that of the average elf height. This is like asking how an IE would react to someone whose hair is bright pink (Though I do like that the Awakening diversified natural metahuman hair and eye colors).
I have to imagine there are probably a few thousand IEs...or were. Maybe Sirrurg killed a lot of them.
But I read a post by Ancient History and Frank Trollman, and they were talking about how most of the elven population was only 18 when the Tirs were founded. Tír na nÓg could have gotten away with having few IE's seeing how they had a pretty bloodless secession from Britain. But Tir Tairngire had a rather violent clash with the Salish-Shidhe Council. And I highly doubt that an army of children would have been able to hold off the SSC military. So I assume that Tir Tairngire had a pretty decent population of IEs, at least a few hundred.
And I'd imagine that what IEs were left were more than happy to have their own nation back, at least at first. Obviously politics ate them away from the inside and caused the whole mess to fall apart, and probably scattering the disenfranchised IEs and reminded them why the 4th World sucked. But that's only me guessing.
Your imagination is wrong. Your guess is wrong. And AH and FrankTrollman are, of course, wrong.
If only there were books that contained histories of those nations' founding ...
-
I actually wasn't talking the immortal elves view at all. I got the impression from what the previous poster said that they're looked up to and i was wondering (completely unrelated to my other thrread) how the groups of racist elves I've seen hinted at in several books would view a human looking (no point ears or the like) who they normally look down on if they knew/thought they were an immortal elf. Which would win out prejudice or veneration.?
-
Somewhere I read the immortal elf gene was recessive.
Do we have a source for that?
-
But I read a post by Ancient History and Frank Trollman, and they were talking about how most of the elven population was only 18 when the Tirs were founded.
And AH and FrankTrollman are, of course, wrong.
If it refers to the post I think it does, Frank Trollman pointed out the oldest living regular elves were just 18 when the Sinseareach tribe was founded in the Salish-Shidhe in 2029, and 24 when Tir Tairngire was established. They also remarked those elves would be 43 years old at the time the Tir Tairngire sourcebook is set, making the point on how elves never retires from their job positions meaningless. All of which is true (check, 2029-2011=18, 2035-2011=24, 2054-2011=43).
There were "spike babies" born before that would be older, but Tir Tairngire is written with the assumption that their existence was a secret and that the entire number of those Sean Laverty could find in North America would fit into a big house. The Tir na nOg sourcebook, on the other hand, makes Liam O'Connor birthdate in 1979 is a public fact as early as 2015.
-
Oh, sure, they got the age thing right.
-
Would it be possible for there to be an Immortal Elf technomancer? Maybe a new type of Immortal Elf that results because of the existence of the Matrix? I was thinking that such a type of IE would be harder to tell, and one completely new.
That said, if IEs have a unique trait, I bet it would be easy enough to tell using a genetic test.
In either case, I really do get the hint that IEs are not mundanes.
-
Wellll... Leonardo, aka Bright Light, from 'Black Madonna' is an IE and while a magician seemed to have ties with the otaku--which were the predecessors to the TMs.
Indeed his optical deck was supposed to be revolutionary-letting him connect direct to the matrix without the usual hardware and even have abilities similar to the otaku of the time without actually being one.
However, its all novel fluff and as a Carl Sargent / Marc Gascoigne piece, some parties argue just how canon it really is.
I personally liked their work, but also recognized they bent the hell out of the mechanics at times so they do not always match up to the game, which can be a sore point when trying to use it as a reference point for any discussion.
So enjoy the reading, use it for ideas and be prepared to tweak it if you want to fit it into your table.
-
I don't think there's much in the text to support that kind of imagination.
Your imagination is wrong. Your guess is wrong. And AH and FrankTrollman are, of course, wrong.
If only there were books that contained histories of those nations' founding ...
Where there not nations of IE's in Earthdawn? I don't actually know. Which is why I'm asking. But if there were, I can't imagine they all died out between the 4th and 6th World.
And if UGE happened in 2011 and Tir Tairngire was founded in 2035, that'd put the oldest population at 24 but most of the population much younger than that. This is all based off of second hand information, I haven't read the Tir Tairngire source book, as a disclaimer. But, I can't imagine that a handful of 18-24 are going to hold off the SSC, who'd have a larger military presence. However, with IE support, I could see the tables easily turning.
-
Depends, The Tir Tairngire book mentions Ehran playing the power behind the throne so to speak in the build up to the nation forming so some older hands were in play.
As for fending off the military, the book mentions how the newly formed Tir pounded the intial 3 columns of SCC armor vehicles with anti vehicle missles and assault mortars and further fending off six different attempts by SCC, though it never really specified any of being hand to hand engagements.
So it sounds like this was a lot of ranged firefight which doesn't need quite the same amount of manpower a full on the ground army would.
How much was automated systems and how much specialists rigging it all together we could not say, but again it could probably be run with pretty lean numbers.
And this is not counting whatever mojo Ehran may have brought into the mix.
In a year's time the Tir turned around and starting pushing south into northern Cal. By then they had openly visible combat mages and reportedly a couple of dragons helping out.
This latter bit raises the question of how long were they training up for this as well as wrangling services of some spellwyrms, assuming they were not spirits taking a dragon form.
-
I don't think there's much in the text to support that kind of imagination.
Your imagination is wrong. Your guess is wrong. And AH and FrankTrollman are, of course, wrong.
If only there were books that contained histories of those nations' founding ...
Where there not nations of IE's in Earthdawn? I don't actually know. Which is why I'm asking. But if there were, I can't imagine they all died out between the 4th and 6th World.
No, there weren't. The handful of IE's we know about -- and there really aren't many of them -- were also the exception, not the rule, in Earthdawn (and many were high-Circle adventurers back then, royalty, etc). There were elven nations, but not IE nations (just like not every elf in the Tirs is immortal, in SR).
And if UGE happened in 2011 and Tir Tairngire was founded in 2035, that'd put the oldest population at 24 but most of the population much younger than that. This is all based off of second hand information, I haven't read the Tir Tairngire source book, as a disclaimer. But, I can't imagine that a handful of 18-24 are going to hold off the SSC, who'd have a larger military presence. However, with IE support, I could see the tables easily turning.
The three ways to reconcile the age thing are to either accept that even the awesome first-and-second edition writers could grossly oversimplify stuff, get psyched up, and make mistakes, or to genuinely believe the Tirs were formed with armies of child soldiers or to imagine dozens of thousands of immortals, themselves all thousands upon thousands of years old, mobilizing as a modern army (after being secretive for centuries upon centuries), in order to carve out Oregon as a nation (and who have done nothing noteworthy since then, and have all just faded back into modern society and pretended not to be thousands of years old, except for that half-dozen of them that shadowrunners share conspiracy theories about).
Of the three, explanations, I believe Occam's Razor generally swings towards the first as the most plausible.
-
The three ways to reconcile the age thing are to either accept that even the awesome first-and-second edition writers could grossly oversimplify stuff, get psyched up, and make mistakes, or to genuinely believe the Tirs were formed with armies of child soldiers or to imagine dozens of thousands of immortals, themselves all thousands upon thousands of years old, mobilizing as a modern army (after being secretive for centuries upon centuries), in order to carve out Oregon as a nation (and who have done nothing noteworthy since then, and have all just faded back into modern society and pretended not to be thousands of years old, except for that half-dozen of them that shadowrunners share conspiracy theories about).
Of the three, explanations, I believe Occam's Razor generally swings towards the first as the most plausible.
The second is also extremely plausible. Basically, the NAN were still reeling from dealing with the U.S. and with their own internal problems, and the elves had a bit of time to gather strength. A group of clever, well-armed child soldiers led by a couple of people who know what they're doing could easily manage to capture and hold a lot of territory... especially considering how reluctant real soldiers are when it comes to firing at children. That may also explain why it is Tir Tairngire wasn't simply overrun by the SSC; they didn't have enough soldiers willing to shoot kids and were still reeling from their recent victory.
-
(and who have done nothing noteworthy since then, and have all just faded back into modern society and pretended not to be thousands of years old, except for that half-dozen of them that shadowrunners share conspiracy theories about).
Well, they could have been running and hiding from Sirrug, and/or being killed by him. Shadowrun is so riddled with elaborate conspiracies that its not impossible for immortal elves to rethink their public stance and go back into hiding. It is still possible that there is a Great Dragon out there that has been hiding out since the awakening, I fail to see why it'd be implausible for IEs to do the same.
Though, I will concede the point that it does sound like the IE population is incredibly low, like double digits. Though for a servant race, you'd think that there would have been more of them to...you know, service the dragons.
-
Given the chatter about downcycle hunting in Aztlan, my guess is that there is a lot more concern for IEs hunting Great Dragons than the other way around. At best, Sirrurg got one when attacking EuroAir 329, but some IEs (especially Aithne Oakforest) have killed more than a couple based on Hestaby's assessment during Survival of the Fittest and sheer numbers. There are nine Great Dragons of Barsaive alone in ED's Dragons (and references to Lofwyr and Denairastas). There are only about two dozen worldwide in SR.
Just to be clear what the canon is (Threats, 58):
Less than 25 immortal elves are known to exist, and none have been born since the Awakening. Immortal elves possesses an immortality gene that is triggered by the rise of the world’s mana level. (Allegedly, the Seelie Court of Tir na nOg and Tir Tairngire’s Council of Princes have perfected a genetic test that reveals the presence of the gene in an elf.) Also, note that the immortality gene may lie dormant in an elf, so theoretically several other “unawakened” immortal elves may exist.
The only way I can reconcile the wording of the first and last sentences is to infer that the "unawakened" IEs are spike babies like Dodger. Any new ones would be 18 or under (Threats was set in 2057).
Tír Tairngire was not composed entirely of elves when it seceded, and it's not a novelty of history for a revolutionary political regime to turn around and isolate and punish those very people who helped secure a new regime's existence. Anyway ...
-
Where there not nations of IE's in Earthdawn? I don't actually know. Which is why I'm asking. But if there were, I can't imagine they all died out between the 4th and 6th World.
There weren't nations of IEs in Earthdawn. There were elven nations, but even then the 'immortal elves' were something of a myth or urban legend to most people, even though an IE was sitting on the throne of the elven court. Remember, the IEs learned the art of secrecy and manipulation at the feet of dragons.
Would it be possible for there to be an Immortal Elf technomancer? Maybe a new type of Immortal Elf that results because of the existence of the Matrix? I was thinking that such a type of IE would be harder to tell, and one completely new.
Possible, but it would have to be an Immortal Elf born recently, and most of the immortals are... not exactly the spreading wild oats kind. You'd be looking at a second (maybe third) generation from the original dragon parent. Possible, but unlikely, and there is not exactly a large sample size to go from. Also, the immortality only extends to the second or third generation removed from the dragon parent, so if, say, Frosty had kids, there's a high likelihood that they would not be IEs.
-
Where's that from? I can accept a recessive gene but I'm really not happy with the idea of a magical gene that dissapears after a few generations. Maybe one like the magicians gene in that its spread throughout countless generations but requires a certain mana level to wake up as it were and even then its not entirely something I'm comfortable with.
-
Where's that from? I can accept a recessive gene but I'm really not happy with the idea of a magical gene that dissapears after a few generations. Maybe one like the magicians gene in that its spread throughout countless generations but requires a certain mana level to wake up as it were and even then its not entirely something I'm comfortable with.
One could argue that if it's NOT recessive (and extremely so, dwindling as the draconic blood is dilluted by generation after generation), the planet would be overgrown with immortal elves. Because we know there aren't that many, and because we know they're fertile, the logical extrapolation is that it can't breed true very often at all, and it can't breed true after second or third generations, or by now -- millennia later -- the place would be overrun with people never dying of old age.
There were few in Earthdawn, and there aren't still few in Shadowrun, so they couldn't have been breeding true in the thousands and thousands of years in between.
-
Is it possible the lower magic level made it impossible for them to breed true?
-
Is it possible the lower magic level made it impossible for them to breed true?
Sure, why not?
-
This is from the Dragons sourcebook for Earthdawn, written during the death of FASA.
DRAGON-KIN
Dragon-kin are Name-givers born of or descended from the mating of a Name-giver and a dragon in Name-giver form. They have certain unique abilities as a result of their heritage. Without careful breeding and a regular infusion of dragon-blood, most families of dragon-kin become ordinary Name-givers after many generations as the dragon blood is slowly diluted. Dragon tradition now forbids dragons mating with any of the Young Races to produce dragon-kin, and the practice has been banned since the dawn of the Age of Legend. Violating this tradition is one of the few actions that is likely to result in a dragon being banished from dragon society. As a result, the number of these Name-givers in Barsaive is extremely small and is constantly decreasing.
So my bad, not 1-2 generations, but the effects go away, as the dragon blood thins out. And while all races can produce dragon-kin, only elf dragon-kin are known to be immortal. The children of the Denairastas clan of Iopos are known to be long-lived, but whether they are immortal isn't clear (they tend to have many unnatural deaths well within a human's life-span). This leads to my own personal belief that the Black Lodge is, in fact, the descendants of Denairastas. It would explain how they gained their knowledge without any immortal elves, and would make the 'Ultimate Master' of the Black Lodge to be Denairastas himself. If the Outcast is still kicking around, then the Lodge's actions during the Dragon Civil War are put in a new light.
-
This is from the Dragons sourcebook for Earthdawn, written during the death of FASA.
DRAGON-KIN
Dragon-kin are Name-givers born of or descended from the mating of a Name-giver and a dragon in Name-giver form. They have certain unique abilities as a result of their heritage. Without careful breeding and a regular infusion of dragon-blood, most families of dragon-kin become ordinary Name-givers after many generations as the dragon blood is slowly diluted. Dragon tradition now forbids dragons mating with any of the Young Races to produce dragon-kin, and the practice has been banned since the dawn of the Age of Legend. Violating this tradition is one of the few actions that is likely to result in a dragon being banished from dragon society. As a result, the number of these Name-givers in Barsaive is extremely small and is constantly decreasing.
So my bad, not 1-2 generations, but the effects go away, as the dragon blood thins out. And while all races can produce dragon-kin, only elf dragon-kin are known to be immortal. The children of the Denairastas clan of Iopos are known to be long-lived, but whether they are immortal isn't clear (they tend to have many unnatural deaths well within a human's life-span). This leads to my own personal belief that the Black Lodge is, in fact, the descendants of Denairastas. It would explain how they gained their knowledge without any immortal elves, and would make the 'Ultimate Master' of the Black Lodge to be Denairastas himself. If the Outcast is still kicking around, then the Lodge's actions during the Dragon Civil War are put in a new light.
Keep in mind, though, that was "many generations" back in the Earthdawn days, with that mana level (not during the great down cycle). I'd default to it being quicker to happen/dilute, now, personally (and even quicker totally between mana spikes).
-
Agreed. All things mana-related are lessened during the downtime. So any children they had during that time may not have expressed as dragon-kin. As far as the immortal elves go, they're not really the 'sowing wild oats' type. Other than Harlequin, they're meticulous planners and are unlikely to delve too deeply into things like love. There are only a few children of the IEs I know of in this cycle, Aithne Oakforest's kid, Frosty, and Jenna Ni'Fairra (who is Alachia's kid, unless I'm way off base). Given that it has been roughly 80 years since mana started rising, that's not exactly big numbers.
However, a secret society, with the children of Denairastas at its core could have survived until the present day. The 'dragon-kin' bit may not have carried on, but the teachings and such could definitely be alive, especially if Denairastas himself is still alive somewhere.
-
Lots to chew on here.
I like the idea most of the immortal elves are less inclined towards the master plotting BS embodied by Ehran the Scribe/Great Dragons.
That was actually one of the things which drew me to Harlequin when I first read through Harlequin/Harlequin's Back. And why Frosty's description of his is in Street Legend Supplemental is one of my favorite bits of SR4.
On any timeline as long as an immortal's life, trying to manage macro-manipulations is bound to become unsustainable.
Where did they say immortal elves were descended from dragons?
-
One of the earthdawn books, they're trying to cut ties wherever possible but some are too embeded e.g. the origin of the immortal elves and humans, possibly other races.
EDIT
If Denny's still around and given he was already exiled who's to say the upper circles aren't all immortal as a result of his actions? On the other hand I again refer to my own thread where it was mentioned that the head of the black lodge was an immortal human.
So I have my explanation anyone can be an immortal elf/human as a result of the massive breeding worldwide. It is however normally to recessive and bred out to have any effect, although there are exceptions (i.e gm approved). Especially with a little help from bitter exiled dragons who oh say may not have been given a chance to tell their loyal followers to stand down before they were horribly slaughtered or who anticipated their possible death and set in motion an abomination plan B to stick it to their killers since they could afterall kill any of the offspring they were tracking if they won. Is everyone one? No? Can any given player be one? Yes just excpect the GM to have a lot of fun with you.
-
You're wrong about something, Furious Trope. The Immortal Elves are ALL ABOUT master plans and plotting and scheming. Of all the immortals, Harlequin and Frosty are the exceptions. Well, Oakforest's kid was, too, but he made the big mistake of trying to make an omelet with dragon eggs under Lofwyr's protection. I'll let you guess how that turned out for him.
Both Tirs, and almost certainly all the other 'elven lands' around the world have immortal elf fingerprints all over them, even if they aren't directly involved. Tir Tairngir and Tir Nan Og were both created directly by immortal elves, and until the 'unpleasantness' in Tir Tairngir during the Crash, both were ruled by the IEs.
You don't live to be several thousand years old without learning how to weave a plot or two. Harlequin may act differently, but that's because he's been suffering from a heavy dose of depression for who knows how long, and if you'd watched the last couple thousand years of (meta)human civilization, you'd probably have a dim outlook on things, too. Frosty acts differently because she's still the youngest immortal, and hasn't even lived long for a normal elf.
-
Where did they say immortal elves were descended from dragons?
That's a leftover from Earthdawn (something that CGL has been gravitating away from) but you can't just take nearly 20 years of background and excise it just like that.
OUT damned spot
Anyhow that's that.
-
They say that somewhere in the Jewel of Memories (http://shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Jewel_of_Memory) there is a pile of 'Dragons Gone Wild' memories with all their wacky antics and metahuman hook-ups.
-
They say that somewhere in the Jewel of Memories (http://shadowrun.wikia.com/wiki/Jewel_of_Memory) there is a pile of 'Dragons Gone Wild' memories with all their wacky antics and metahuman hook-ups.
And now we know WHY they all wanted it in Survival of the Fittest.
-
Bunch of quotes all consolidated.
Seriously, just talk to your GM and tell him you don't want your character to die of old age, ever, and figure out what will work in your game.
I don't believe that I've ever played in a SR game where dying of old age was a possibility, much less a problem. "Don't want to die of old age? Sure. Trade me this Day-Glo t-shirt for your armored jacket." :)
According to the reply in my thread there are 24 immortals including one human currently canon wise and I believe they can identify immortal elves at least due to specific genetic markers.
While I doubt that there is a specific Immortality Test ("Pee on the stick, and if you see a blue infinity, congratulations!"), a particular genome could probably be analyzed for mutations and drift compared to some sort of "normal." Maybe looks at the mDNA to estimate how far the individual is from the mitochondrial eve? Probably would only work on the old-timers, though, since it depends on the genome's variance from the common baseline. Would also probably cost plot-device amounts of money, too.
anyone can be an immortal elf/human as a result of the massive breeding worldwide. It is however normally to recessive and bred out to have any effect, although there are exceptions (i.e gm approved).
As long as it's only diluted, not eliminated, a trait can be re-amplified by a proper breeding program. Hmm... What if the whole inbred European royalty thing wasn't snobbish-ness, but an attempt to concentrate the dragon blood sufficiently to create a new Immortal? I'm totally stealing this idea.
-
I like that idea too be interesting to hear how you go with it.
-
Where did they say immortal elves were descended from dragons?
That's a leftover from Earthdawn (something that CGL has been gravitating away from) but you can't just take nearly 20 years of background and excise it just like that.
OUT damned spot
Anyhow that's that.
My impression was that immortal elves were just that - unique elves, no ties to dragons. I'd have to go back and re-read my ED books (well, dig them out of storage, dust them off, sort them and then read them ;) ), but it seemed like there were Drakes and Dragon-Kin. Drakes being the magical constructs created by dragons and the kin being the offspring of a name-giver and dragon in name-giver form. Though I think the dragon-kin needed a dragon around through the generations to provide ....ermm....regular influx of dragon blood into the bloodline, otherwise their line reverted to standard name-giver types. I think the kin also had mutations of a dragon nature --- granted masking and/or illusions would cover that.
The elves from ED were a thorn in the dragons sides then too....the great dragons are probably irked that their *are* still immortal elves! Somewhere there is a list of ED to SR mappings of IE elves---most of them were leaders/royalty and high level magicians back then also.
As it's already been stated previously, since ED and SR separated ways, I would guess there were a lot of story arcs and info that was never completed or just plain lost and forgotten. To be fair though there are a lot SR story arcs that have been hinted at over the years that never went anywhere...granted they may pick them up again sometime and then there will a huge thread on it! ;)
-
The elves in ED were a thorn in the dragons' sides for a couple reasons. For one thing, the immortal elves had a 'falling out' with their progenitors, not wanting to be slaves, and there was still bad blood on either side by ED times. Things weren't helped any when Alamaise (he used an 'e' back then) showed up at the dawn of the 4th World at the site of one of his old lairs, which happened to be the wood where the Elves had taken to making their Lothlorien (named Wyrm Wood) and said that he was the ruler of all these lands, and they should serve him. The elves weren't amused, and he killed some of them, including the current queen. Oh, and then Alachia, one of the more Machiavellian and petty immortal elves, ended up as the Queen of the Elves. No, I'm not making that up. So basically, it boils down to the fact that Alamais was always a dick, and people hated him.
And yes, dragonkin needed a regular infusion of dragon blood (in a Rule 34 sense, in case anyone was unclear) for the line to continue producing dragonkin. However, if you were in the range where you were able to produce dragonkin kids, just being really old wouldn't have much affect on that, as Ehran proved by having a kid in the Sixth World. I suspect that, unless there's substantial biological changes, males would remain viable parents longer than females. If I have to explain further, I'll just send you back to high school health class.
And yes, dragonkin typically have some kind of draconic mutation, such as scales over parts of their body. However, even without magic, depending on where these mutations are, they could be easy to hide. In the Sixth World, they're even easier to disguise through mundane means, to say nothing of illusions.
-
The elves in ED were a thorn in the dragons' sides
Nice one ;)
-
(http://img1.etsystatic.com/012/0/5410907/il_340x270.430690807_rh5s.jpg)