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[SR5]'Overwatch'--Pixie MysAdept Sniper/Infiltrator/Summoner

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Nephilim

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« Reply #15 on: <06-26-18/1724:16> »
The funny thing? I'm also (unfortunately) the face, and insisted on trying to keep our run clean because that way we don't leave loose ends.

So far, we've negotiated for one of three items to collect for our first run.

Not quite sure what you're saying in that first part, but I'm pretty sure the funny part is the glorified butterfly handling the .50 caliber deathstick.

Inconnu

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« Reply #16 on: <06-26-18/2019:48> »
The funny thing? I'm also (unfortunately) the face, and insisted on trying to keep our run clean because that way we don't leave loose ends.

So far, we've negotiated for one of three items to collect for our first run.

Not quite sure what you're saying in that first part, but I'm pretty sure the funny part is the glorified butterfly handling the .50 caliber deathstick.

That I'm entirely built to be Pink Mohawk and ended up being the voice of peace and reason.

Reaver

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« Reply #17 on: <06-26-18/2240:18> »
Righto...


THIS is why people laugh at the idea of a "pixie with a sniper rifle" concept.

In the picture, is a 30-06 hunting rifle, which is a good stand in for the average sniper rifle in use by many police agencies around the world. (this is a M800 Remington, the most popular sniper rifle in the world is the M700, the .308 version of this rifle without the fancy furniture)

This rifle is 63 cm shorter then the M82, which is a .50 cal sniper rifle.





 
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Reaver

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« Reply #18 on: <06-26-18/2240:49> »
And... so you can compare. The big round on the end is a .50 cal. The 3rd round in is a .308..... The .50 round has a mass almost 4 times that of a .308 cal round.

The .50 also produces up to 18 kilojules (15000 ft-pds!) of energy when fired. 4 times that of a 30-06 round! And 18,000 joules (15000 ft-lb) of recoil that must be absorbed by the firer.

Just so we are clear, that is 15 tons of force that you have to counter act with the mass of the shooter, at the instant of firing.

The pixie doesn't shoot the rifle. The rifle CUTS the pixie in half when shot.



*in case you don't know the size of a dollar bill, it is 6.62 cm tall.. or about 1/7 the size of a Pixie.
a .50 cal rifle round is around 6 inches in length... or 15.5 cm, about 1/3 the size of the pixie, JUST FOR THE CARTRIDGE!
« Last Edit: <06-26-18/2246:41> by Reaver »
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

adzling

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« Reply #19 on: <06-26-18/2248:47> »
I love you reaver

Inconnu

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« Reply #20 on: <06-27-18/0003:29> »
And... so you can compare. The big round on the end is a .50 cal. The 3rd round in is a .308..... The .50 round has a mass almost 4 times that of a .308 cal round.

The .50 also produces up to 18 kilojules (15000 ft-pds!) of energy when fired. 4 times that of a 30-06 round! And 18,000 joules (15000 ft-lb) of recoil that must be absorbed by the firer.

Just so we are clear, that is 15 tons of force that you have to counter act with the mass of the shooter, at the instant of firing.

The pixie doesn't shoot the rifle. The rifle CUTS the pixie in half when shot.



*in case you don't know the size of a dollar bill, it is 6.62 cm tall.. or about 1/7 the size of a Pixie.
a .50 cal rifle round is around 6 inches in length... or 15.5 cm, about 1/3 the size of the pixie, JUST FOR THE CARTRIDGE!
You're missing a point. While I won't deny holding the sniper rifle is a little silly... a lot silly. You're assuming the shooter is stationary.

Being in midair means that I get to actually be pushed backwards when I fire it. Instead of absorbing that force.

blackshade10

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« Reply #21 on: <06-27-18/0025:25> »
Actually, you would not get pushed backward.  Take a look at Reavers picture.  The only way to hold that rifle, if you can lift it at all, is to basically hug it to your chest while leaning over it to put your face into the scope.  The second you fired, you'd be sent into a spin, since you cannot make use of the shoulder rest to absorb and DISTRIBUTE any of the recoil.  Further, with a max strength of 2, and a tiny body, there's a not insignificant chance of you shattering your arms after you fire it.

Reaver

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« Reply #22 on: <06-27-18/0132:41> »
Actually, you would not get pushed backward.  Take a look at Reavers picture.  The only way to hold that rifle, if you can lift it at all, is to basically hug it to your chest while leaning over it to put your face into the scope.  The second you fired, you'd be sent into a spin, since you cannot make use of the shoulder rest to absorb and DISTRIBUTE any of the recoil.  Further, with a max strength of 2, and a tiny body, there's a not insignificant chance of you shattering your arms after you fire it.


actually, no.

the arm in the picture is at full extension, and even then it does not reach the trigger from the butt stock.
Simply put: "Little T-Rex arms don't reach"

At best. you are looking at more of a shoulder mounted, like a WW2 bazooka, or panzershrek(sp?).



Then there is the physics of the torque.

We are talking about a large object being extended out past the center of mass, an object that has considerable weight to the object..

EXAMPLE AT HOME TIME!

Grab the jug of milk from the fridge, hold it close to your chest. Now hold it straight out in front of you. Notice the muscle strain difference, yet the actual weight didn't change?

I don't know the math Torque off the top of my head (its an auto-fill on the program at work :D), I'll leave that up to the more arithmetic inclined :P But I can give you an example that I do know off the top of my head, just because I deal with it all the time.

An Aerial manlift with a boom extension of 80ft, has a base weight of 56,700 lbs, and at max extension, can only support 500 lbs, anything more and the machine will tip! (and I know this because I have to weight my tools AND gear for the basket every time I use a machine for insurance reasons after 3 tip overs in 15 years.)

But, basically, this would be the Hulk of pixies to pull it off.




Inconnu,

The fact that you are not on the ground makes it WORSE, not better. By being airborne, you take away your own mass as a counter reaction to the recoil. Now all that 18,000 joules of energy is transferred to you to absorb.

This goes back to the laws of Physics. Again. The impact velocity of the weapon into your frame by the recoil, is now resisted by the smallest point, outward, without mass (as in gravity and your weight) compensation.  The first thing impacted at 18000 joules of energy is your soft tissue (at point of impact), followed by ligaments (at PoI), Then Bone (at PoI), spreading outward to the rest of your frame, and then finally impacting your change in direction; Which is a factor of speeds and directions of impacts, and all other fancy science things that go beyond the pay grade of an Instrument Mechanic...

In short, that 18000 joules goes INTO you before it changes your direction. And given your mass as a Pixie, That could mean INTO you as in "the rifle stock enters your chest cavity, ending your life instantly".



Again. Pixies and Guns Don't Work.   



Lets put this into more real world perspective.

The 51-Mustang, mounted a Merlin RR Engine with an output of 1400 horsepower without Boosting. It was also armed with 6 Browning .50 cal machine guns with a fire rate of 600 rounds a minute.

A 3 second burst from the guns would slow the Mustang 3 to 12 km/h depending on altitude.

The P-51 Mustang had a gross weight of 12,300 lbs.
« Last Edit: <06-27-18/0242:42> by Reaver »
Where am I going? And why am I in a hand basket ???

Remember: You can't fix Stupid. But you can beat on it with a 2x4 until it smartens up! Or dies.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #23 on: <06-27-18/0259:47> »
What I hear is 'drone with tripod gun mounted on it'.
How am I not part of the forum?? O_O I am both active and angry!

blackshade10

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« Reply #24 on: <06-27-18/0819:36> »
What I hear is 'drone with tripod gun mounted on it'.

Yeah, a drone sounds much more manageable.  Pixie size might even be able to ride it

mbisber

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« Reply #25 on: <06-27-18/0929:58> »
Before we begin, I should note that there are a couple of houserules in play;
More than a couple? How knowledgeable is your GM about simple physical mechanics and how they work, i.e. gravity being pretty important?

A sustained Levitate spell on your weapon might enable you to carry it about, then fire it with a tripod, or the like, from a pretty level surface, but to fire it while 'flying', hanging, suspended, etc. makes this idea problematical even with Levitate.

Do you have other rationales/Spells in mind to utilize?

Inconnu

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« Reply #26 on: <06-27-18/0947:12> »
Before we begin, I should note that there are a couple of houserules in play;
More than a couple? How knowledgeable is your GM about simple physical mechanics and how they work, i.e. gravity being pretty important?

A sustained Levitate spell on your weapon might enable you to carry it about, then fire it with a tripod, or the like, from a pretty level surface, but to fire it while 'flying', hanging, suspended, etc. makes this idea problematical even with Levitate.

Do you have other rationales/Spells in mind to utilize?

Well, I mean, I could always spend 12 karma to perm Strength and Body increases, bringing both to 5, and incidentally, making me the previously mentioned 'hulk of pixies'...

mbisber

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« Reply #27 on: <06-27-18/1105:47> »
Well, it says somewhere that even a troll would have difficulty carrying one of the bigger sniper rifles, so Strength of 5 wouldn't help all that much.

adzling

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« Reply #28 on: <06-27-18/1200:19> »
this is the problem of rules lawyers and people lacking common sense. if you don't spell out in the rules the obvious things that you cannot do they will always attempt to do them.


Nephilim

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« Reply #29 on: <06-27-18/1222:39> »
Before we begin, I should note that there are a couple of houserules in play;
More than a couple? How knowledgeable is your GM about simple physical mechanics and how they work, i.e. gravity being pretty important?

A sustained Levitate spell on your weapon might enable you to carry it about, then fire it with a tripod, or the like, from a pretty level surface, but to fire it while 'flying', hanging, suspended, etc. makes this idea problematical even with Levitate.

Do you have other rationales/Spells in mind to utilize?

Well, I mean, I could always spend 12 karma to perm Strength and Body increases, bringing both to 5, and incidentally, making me the previously mentioned 'hulk of pixies'...

If you and your GM are ok with it then your character is fine. Don't worry about us. But if you're here to try and justify a pixie handling a rifle three times its size to us, don't bother.  It's a losing battle. The physics, quite flatly, isn't on your side.