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Is there an SR5 in the works?

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Mirikon

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« Reply #135 on: <03-02-12/1607:10> »
AFAIK, as of WAR!, metahuman exoskeleton type suits have proven unworkable so far. Either they are too large and bulky to work, or they move so quickly that they injure their drivers.

I wouldn't say D20 is the devil. It is different from Shadowrun, certainly, but it is a very simple, easy to learn system, which is why so many people use it.
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JustADude

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« Reply #136 on: <03-02-12/1615:36> »
I'm pretty sure Iron Man armor is feasible in SR4.

There's already the Iron Will exoskeleton out of Attitude (p 154); which is armor that gets treated like a vehicle... or a vehicle that gets worn like armor... or something to that effect. All I know is it's a power-assistance device that was invented before muscle aug and rigged drones became so freakin' cheap, and it's basically the Power Loader from Aliens. That gives you a precedent to base "power armor," since it bridges the line between armor and vehicles.

One might foreseeably have something similar, but built with modern tech and with Responsive Interface Gear as "stock" to eliminate the -1 Agility Iron Will gives the wearer (via reading the intent to move as it goes out to your muscles instead of needing delay-causing mechanical feedback). After that, throwing in a jet-pack and some built-in laser weapons is easy... though it'll probably look more like the Iron Monger from the first movie, rather than Iron Man.
« Last Edit: <03-02-12/1617:48> by JustADude »
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Stahlseele

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« Reply #137 on: <03-02-12/1947:16> »
wear soft-weave-military-grade-armor underneath it that has agility and strength boost built into it.
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All4BigGuns

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« Reply #138 on: <03-02-12/2022:55> »
I'm pretty sure Iron Man armor is feasible in SR4.

There's already the Iron Will exoskeleton out of Attitude (p 154); which is armor that gets treated like a vehicle... or a vehicle that gets worn like armor... or something to that effect. All I know is it's a power-assistance device that was invented before muscle aug and rigged drones became so freakin' cheap, and it's basically the Power Loader from Aliens. That gives you a precedent to base "power armor," since it bridges the line between armor and vehicles.

One might foreseeably have something similar, but built with modern tech and with Responsive Interface Gear as "stock" to eliminate the -1 Agility Iron Will gives the wearer (via reading the intent to move as it goes out to your muscles instead of needing delay-causing mechanical feedback). After that, throwing in a jet-pack and some built-in laser weapons is easy... though it'll probably look more like the Iron Monger from the first movie, rather than Iron Man.

Woot! SAMAS power armor here we come!
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CanRay

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« Reply #139 on: <03-02-12/2025:20> »
though it'll probably look more like the Iron Monger from the first movie, rather than Iron Man.
That's because Tony Stark didn't build it.  In a cave.  WITH A BOX OF SCRAPS!
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Stahlseele

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« Reply #140 on: <03-02-12/2033:41> »
I thought the Iron-Monger-Armor was cooler actually . .
It looked closer to Battletech than to Gundamn or the newer Macross-Stuff, which is always a + in my book . .
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KarmaInferno

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« Reply #141 on: <03-02-12/2258:08> »
AFAIK, as of WAR!, metahuman exoskeleton type suits have proven unworkable so far. Either they are too large and bulky to work, or they move so quickly that they injure their drivers.

Well, what they need are smaller drivers.

:)



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Kylen

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« Reply #142 on: <03-03-12/0159:39> »
Now, I wasn't condeming d20. I love my Pathfinder and M&M. BESM will always be a 2d6 game in my book, and I never got a chance at Deadlands T_T

My point was that the Pool o'd6 just SCREAMS shadowrun to me. The same way seeing someone put down a bag mostly filled with d10s tells me they play in White Wolf games. Its just a fundamental part of it's identity, and taking that way (like how they tried WAY too hard to streamline D&D in 4e. I know DMs who just carry around plastic baggies with notecards, with each baggy marked as a different class) is going to likely drive off a good portion of the fanbase. There will always be people who say "Previous Edition is better". That's just nature. But I'm sure everyone who likes 2e SR over 3e or so on was still able to at least comprehend most the rule changes because the fundemental, the Pool of d6s, never changed, and thus was able to formulate their opinion more on rule changes then on the fact that it just isn't the same game any more.
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JustADude

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« Reply #143 on: <03-03-12/0204:40> »
wear soft-weave-military-grade-armor underneath it that has agility and strength boost built into it.

Actually, the Iron Will replaces the user's actual Strength with an effective value of 8, so the strength booster would be useless.
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Crash_00

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« Reply #144 on: <03-03-12/0916:20> »
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Drag from d20 to a "real" system? What the hell? The d20 system is just as valid a system as most others--I say most because of the diceless systems out there.

Its a perfectly valid miniature wargame system with roleplaying optional. You can argue until your blue in the face, but when the suggested XP for roleplaying is absolutely horrid compared to killing monsters and nothing other than killing monsters gives experience, then its pretty much a killing monsters game.

It's not just D20, Dungeons and Dragons has almost always been like this, but D20 definitely redefined it into a board game making a battlegrid and dice almost mandatory to manage it without someone at the table getting jipped on abilities.

Most of the diceless systems out there are actually more viable as a roleplaying system, because the focus is actually on roleplaying.

I'm not saying you can't roleplay D20, just that the focus isn't on roleplaying at all. A real RPG system should have roleplaying as a key aspect, not an afterthought.

Mirikon

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« Reply #145 on: <03-03-12/0937:07> »
Roleplaying in D&D, as in any other setting, including Shadowrun, is a function of the interaction between the DM and the PCs. The dice are there because not everyone has the silver tongue of a bard, or the nimble fingers of the rogue, or the fighter's skill with a blade. The diceless systems are no better or worse at roleplaying. Indeed, I've seen more than a few such 'diceless' games devolve into cowboys and indians style shenanigans.

And where, then, is the "roleplaying as a key aspect" in Shadowrun? The 1-2 karma points you may get for good roleplaying if the DM feels like it, just like how a DM in D&D can award bonus XP for roleplaying if he feels like it? I will admit that D&D books don't have the same flair as Shadowrun books do, but there is a simple reason for that. Shadowrun is a single setting. D&D is designed to be used in different settings, be it Greyhawk, Faerun, Ravenloft, Eberron, Dark Sun, Dragonlance, Birthright, or any one of the hundreds of thousands of homebrew settings that DMs have brought in over the years. Shadowrun's system is intrinsically tied to the setting, making it far more difficult to transplant into another world than D&D, which provides a skeleton, and allows DMs to put meat on the bones, building the world to their specifications.
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Crash_00

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« Reply #146 on: <03-03-12/1016:16> »
SR3 and SR4 are extremely easy to use with other systems. All it requires is stripping out cyberware and/or magic and the skills that don't fit.

Shadowrun encourages the player to make an actual person in the world. D&D encourages the player to roll up attributes, pick a class and go.

In addition, Shadowrun rewards roleplaying as roughly 20-40% of the reward (if you use the 1-2 for RPing guide and the 4-5 per run guide suggested). In 3.5 the suggested roleplaying reward was 200 per session. It really only compares at very low levels. In addition, the book actually encourages roleplaying in most areas and brings it up often. I haven't touched 4E D&D (I ran the beta adventures and could not figure out why I would ever want to expose any players to it), but my old 3rd book had a tiny section roughly a paragraph long on what rolelpalying means with no descriptions of how to do it. It led to plenty of Living Greyhawk games where I would start RPing one of the NPCs the group meets only to have everyone in the group have a simultaneous WTF moment because they had never actually seen or understood that roleplaying also involves talking like the characters and playing the part of the characters. In their 10-12 levels they had never had anyone talk to them in character, because it was an often left out part of the game.

Now, D20 isn't the exact same in every D20 game, but D20 gamers (meaning those that haven't played a non-D20 game) tend to have that same mindset until they are exposed to a non-D20 game.

I has nothing to do with my personal dislike (which revolves around the classes and levels), just hundreds of hours of experience running the living campaigns.

Mirikon

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« Reply #147 on: <03-03-12/1035:42> »
Crash, that is because Shadowrun has a single world to deal with. You can encourage people to be scared drekless by bug spirits because any SR player knows EXACTLY what they've done. This isn't the case in D&D, where there is no set world. Mindflayers? Yes, they're nasty, because they eat your brain. Drow? Evil elves. There is a very good reason for this. Not everyone may use the idea that Mindflayers are actually refugees from the far future trying to rebuild their future empire that crossed the stars while fighting to enslave the giths that will eventually rise up to overthrow the empire, since they got tired of being slaves. Not everyone will play how Malcanthet, demon queen of the Succubi, is currently trying to seduce one of the Lords of Hell in order to forge an unholy alliance between the Abyss and the Nine Hells that will leave the material plane in shambles. Not everyone will have Elminster sitting in his tower, keeping the REALLY nasty things from wrecking havoc while he sends adventurers out to handle 'local' threats.

And yes, there are people who play a simple dungeon run style game, where the whole purpose is to kill things and take their stuff. That motif is especially popular at cons and pick up games at your FLGS where they hand out a few pregens to play. There are a great many, however, who do roleplay their characters, especially when they are in a long-running game IRL, with characters they have played for a while, and grown to know. You don't get that same experience with living campaigns as you do gaming with the same group week in and week out.
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Longshot23

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« Reply #148 on: <03-03-12/1131:43> »
Crash, that is because Shadowrun has a single world to deal with. You can encourage people to be scared drekless by bug spirits because any SR player knows EXACTLY what they've done. This isn't the case in D&D, where there is no set world. Mindflayers? Yes, they're nasty, because they eat your brain. Drow? Evil elves. There is a very good reason for this. Not everyone may use the idea that Mindflayers are actually refugees from the far future trying to rebuild their future empire that crossed the stars while fighting to enslave the giths that will eventually rise up to overthrow the empire, since they got tired of being slaves. Not everyone will play how Malcanthet, demon queen of the Succubi, is currently trying to seduce one of the Lords of Hell in order to forge an unholy alliance between the Abyss and the Nine Hells that will leave the material plane in shambles. Not everyone will have Elminster sitting in his tower, keeping the REALLY nasty things from wrecking havoc while he sends adventurers out to handle 'local' threats.

And yes, there are people who play a simple dungeon run style game, where the whole purpose is to kill things and take their stuff. That motif is especially popular at cons and pick up games at your FLGS where they hand out a few pregens to play. There are a great many, however, who do roleplay their characters, especially when they are in a long-running game IRL, with characters they have played for a while, and grown to know. You don't get that same experience with living campaigns as you do gaming with the same group week in and week out.

[sarcasm]

So that's what Alachia has been doing while running beneath the radar: masquerading as the demon queen of succubi (short stretch).  And Harlequin has been putting some 'Elminster' time in - explains a lot . . .

[/sarcasm]

Crash_00

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« Reply #149 on: <03-03-12/1151:25> »
It has nothing to do with one setting vs. multiple settings. The core book has always had a pantheon, and nothing keeps it from putting more emphasis on creating generic backgrounds for the characters. The core rulebooks have also always had the races with generic cultures as well. The core book is a single setting, just generic rather than well defined.

Skip to SR. SR has a little bit of world building at the beginning of the book, but even in the character creation section, it's encouraging the building of a person rather than a set of numbers. Knowledge skills, Lifestyles, Contacts,Qualities; These are all things that breathe life into a character. D&D (the core of D20) has what? Racial bonuses and languages.
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There are a great many, however, who do roleplay their characters, especially when they are in a long-running game IRL, with characters they have played for a while, and grown to know. You don't get that same experience with living campaigns as you do gaming with the same group week in and week out.
I'm assuming you didn't bother to actually read both my posts or you would have noticed:
I'm not saying you can't roleplay D20, just that the focus isn't on roleplaying at all. A real RPG system should have roleplaying as a key aspect, not an afterthought.

There are plenty of RPG systems out there designed for multiple systems that still manage to put a large emphasis on roleplaying. D20 just isn't one of them.