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Rigger 5 Errata

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Wakshaani

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« Reply #105 on: <12-25-15/0816:54> »
I noticed the Mitsuhama Akiyama (the assassination doll) from Hard Targets didn't make it into the Master list of vehicles/drones in the end of the book.
...Matter of fact, I think all the drones from HT were missed (Ammo Drone, Reloading Drone, Sparring Drone, pages 189-190).

Hard Targets isn't a book I worked on, so I didn't know about 'em until it was published. I couldnlt add things in that I didn't know about! They seem pretty solid, but the reloading drone steps on my intending to not have an Armorer Skillsoft. Not *entirely* since it doesn't actually build things, but.

UnLimiTeD

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« Reply #106 on: <12-25-15/0829:17> »
You sure put in a lot of effort, respect for that.

One tidbit that's been irrationally irking me:
In the Drone section, downgrades, you mention ripping seats out of a car as a similar case of downgrading, but we don't actually have that option.
If I take a large Van, and put in 4 drone racks, a mechanics shop, first aid station and a mechanical arm, I still have full seating? Or is that assumed to be reduced somehow?
Also, if a vehicle is said to have a drone rack, what size is that? Medium? ( I think this may have been asked somewhere already).
Still waiting on a Vector-Thrust Liminal Body.

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #107 on: <12-25-15/0838:44> »
Hard Targets isn't a book I worked on, so I didn't know about 'em until it was published. I couldnlt add things in that I didn't know about! They seem pretty solid, but the reloading drone steps on my intending to not have an Armorer Skillsoft. Not *entirely* since it doesn't actually build things, but.

Ah, that solves another question - if armorer is included in the mechanics catch all for autosofts.
May I ask why you don't want that? It seems rather to be one of the jobs a drone could excel if provided with the right plans.
talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #108 on: <12-25-15/0903:56> »
Wait, Wakshaani, so you're ok with a drone helping to build and repair structures (industrial mechanic), cars and motorcycles (automotive mechanic), and even aircraft and spacecraft (aeronautic and aerospace mechanic, respectively), but guns are too much? How does that make any sense?

Dr0p5

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« Reply #109 on: <12-25-15/0907:48> »
And, yes, the Cheetah really is intended to run at 180 KPH (That's about 112 MPH!) ... I had it slower at first, but at Movement 4 it wasn't much faster than the real deal, and, honestly, the idea that it could keep pace with most cars was kinda cool, so I went with it. :)
Sounds Awesome.
Btw. Am I the only one thinking about a Rigger with 4-6 Cheetahīs in shiny chrome chasing after a fleeing car ? (forgett about chamelon coating, shining chrome in the moonlight with red LEDīs in the eye sockets and silenced pawns)
or combining them with the anti theft system to guard the Riggerīs car. Definitly want to see the robbers face when 1-2 cheetahs emerge out of the trunk of the car they just trie to steal  ;D

Novocrane

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« Reply #110 on: <12-25-15/0910:59> »
Am I the only one thinking about a Rigger with 4-6 Cheetahīs in shiny chrome chasing after a fleeing car ? (forgett about chamelon coating, shining chrome in the moonlight with red LEDīs in the eye sockets and silenced pawns)
or combining them with the anti theft system to guard the Riggerīs car.
I want one with gecko tips for my gnome to ride.

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #111 on: <12-25-15/0915:11> »
I prefer the P5 for vehicle pursuit personally. None of that pesky chase combat malarkey once it attaches to the car, just follow the signal.

You can't stop the signal, Mal :)

Wakshaani

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« Reply #112 on: <12-25-15/1417:00> »
Hard Targets isn't a book I worked on, so I didn't know about 'em until it was published. I couldnlt add things in that I didn't know about! They seem pretty solid, but the reloading drone steps on my intending to not have an Armorer Skillsoft. Not *entirely* since it doesn't actually build things, but.

Ah, that solves another question - if armorer is included in the mechanics catch all for autosofts.
May I ask why you don't want that? It seems rather to be one of the jobs a drone could excel if provided with the right plans.

Wait, Wakshaani, so you're ok with a drone helping to build and repair structures (industrial mechanic), cars and motorcycles (automotive mechanic), and even aircraft and spacecraft (aeronautic and aerospace mechanic, respectively), but guns are too much? How does that make any sense?

A couple of reasons. Armorer work can be *fast*.. switching out clips (magaziiiiiiiines), building bullets (Well, not that we have 'make your own ammo' rules, but, try to future-proof!), or building crude weapons (bats w/nails, etc) vs replacing a transmission or assembling a ship over the corse of a few weeks with a cadre of other drones ... it suddenly creates a financial option for 'runners outside of, well, 'running. See also "Why don't I just mug deckers for a living?" and the same. Trying to get around that was one thing.

Another was related to construction and trust. INdustrial-scale robots rae normal ... they make cars all the time so letting a drone work on your car feels normal. Despite the fact that guns are assembly-line things, people still have a gut feeling of craftsmanship to them and they, like armor, are things that people who use them upkeep, personally, *all* the *time*, without really trusting others. Much as a parachutist always packs his own gear, so to do gun bunnies always clean and prep their own guns and test their own armor... trusting some drone with your gun being clean and not jamming/misfiring or to have your ballistic-ceramic plates loaded in your vest is a life-death call and one that people just don't *trust* a 'bot to handle.

Which brings up the last one ... in teh fluff, you'll note that people have a bit of a trust gap in terms of drones. Crash 2.0 and the Technomancer Scares made people wary of a few things, and giving drones guns, or the ability to make/upgrade them, is just something people are *very* wiggy about. You might notice the lack of any programming Autosofts? Same thing. Letting the machines program themselves, and create programs, can lead to Very Bad Places.

So, the corps keep the machines away from creating guns or programming, despite the efficiency advantage that it'd offer.

So, in the end, it's a cultural thing, with a touch of gamey-ness behind it. There's no reason it *shouldn't* be something that they could do, and it's hardly game-breaking, but, sometimes you want to go a different direction. This was one of those times. While you can simply create it for your home game (The Skillset Autosoft is a dead-simple mechanic to copy), it's a bit more fun to add a bit of prejudice to the game (Because, you know, we don't have enough racism) ... have the armorer at a Lone Star precinct house snort about "Trusting some damn bot" to keep a bulletproof vest up to par, or make sure that most security drones are non-lethal sporting types, with people getting freaked out if a drone with a *real* gun walks in, even if it's just some hold-out pistol instead of a taser.

(And yes, there are obvious logic hoels in there. Drones dropping industrial-level weights onto heads, slipping poison into food, etc, but, the gross view is always one that gets seen before the subtle. Heck, even the drones section talks about people forgetting that cars are, really, drones themselves and *vastly* more dangerous!)

Hopefully, this makes sense. :)

Wakshaani

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« Reply #113 on: <12-25-15/1426:11> »
Sounds Awesome.
Btw. Am I the only one thinking about a Rigger with 4-6 Cheetahīs in shiny chrome chasing after a fleeing car ? (forgett about chamelon coating, shining chrome in the moonlight with red LEDīs in the eye sockets and silenced pawns)
or combining them with the anti theft system to guard the Riggerīs car. Definitly want to see the robbers face when 1-2 cheetahs emerge out of the trunk of the car they just trie to steal  ;D

It wasn't slated for art (sadly), but a pic I'd had in mind when originally designing it was something like this:



Originally, I'd been doing reserach on assorted clockwork animals for my home game of Malifaux: Through the Breach, and I'd been needing to get my steampunk up with some Russian clockwork builds. I found a bunch of *fantastic* critters (My design was tapping into the Fabrege' design ethhos) and one of them was a running dog, which lit a design-fire in my head that became the Cheetah. (Wonder if I have th... ah HAH! Here we go.)



I wanted to expand that, and when I was culling designs (I had over a hundred at one point! lordy!),most of the animal ones went early.  There were robo-cats and robo-dogs, a goose, a bear ... Pushed all those over for Malifaux and just stuck with a couple for Shadowrun.

So, hey, a peek inside my process. :D

Wakshaani

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« Reply #114 on: <12-25-15/1430:56> »
I prefer the P5 for vehicle pursuit personally. None of that pesky chase combat malarkey once it attaches to the car, just follow the signal.

You can't stop the signal, Mal :)

A thing I wante dto get in but didn't was a rule about sticking explosives in stuff for suicide bombing attempts. The P5 mentions this, but the rules aren't there. (A Pigeon packed with the stuff was what blew up half of Arthur Vogel's body a few years back, putting him on the cyber-path.)

My fault there.

Dr0p5

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« Reply #115 on: <12-25-15/1439:29> »
Nice, but now i want an Biker-gang in Mad Max Style, on their rides beeing escorted by a bunch of cyber wolfīs while crusing over the interstate
(all at voice command for the members)
"Leeeeeroooy get that punk in the Truck",   :P

firebug

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« Reply #116 on: <12-25-15/1442:11> »
How far/fast do drones move on standard combat scale?
I'm Madpath Moth on reddit (and other sites).  Feel free to PM me errata questions!
Jeeze.  It would almost sound stupid until you realize we're talking about an immortal elf clown sword fighting a dragon ghost in a mall.

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #117 on: <12-25-15/1453:36> »
There is already an easy way to create suicide bomb drones: Just hardwire the self-destruct module to your drone of choice.

@armorer
Meh, no big deal as long as my drone mechanic can change ownership and produce electronic parts from devices through the hardware skill. Considering that there are nano-forges (or at least have been) and really good 3d-printers preventing drones from creating them is probably futile anyway.
talk think matrix

To strive, to seek, to find and not to yield
Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

Herr Brackhaus

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« Reply #118 on: <12-25-15/1515:37> »
@Wakshaani
Respectfully, but as a former Airborne Ranger I have to say that you couldn't be further off the mark with your parachute analogy. You realize that every parachutist out there who jumps with a reserve has placed their trust in certified professionals, as these reserve chutes have to be verified and repacked on a regular basis, right? Not to mention that during jump meets we regularly hire people to pack our rigs (I usually have two, one to jump with while the other is being packed) for us so we can maximize the number of jumps we can get in a day.

Heck, I even regularly had my rifle cared for by unit armorers when a barrel needed changing or new scope fittings were received. That's not to say I didn't tweak it or spend hours and hours zeroing it and getting to know it one and out, but not trusting others to touch my gear in any way, shape, or form is, quite frankly, a ludicrous notion more befitting fiction than realism.

I get where you're going with the fluff, but to my mind, the mechanical and even story implications doesn't fly. As you said, easy enough to "fix", which is exactly what I'll do.

And by the way, Hard Targets introduced hand loads, aka "ways to make your own ammo". No offense intendef, but if the writers aren't even aware of what's going on in / with other publications, I'm starting to understand why the rulebooks feel so disjointed.

Still, rules have always been a guideline to my mind. I'll take what I like from the core rules and change or discard what I don't. I'll personally allow Armorer and pretty much any skillsoft for drones, and in my games drones will have a little more wiggle room for modifications because I feel they are way too constrained as the rules are written. So if nothing else, thanks for providing a solid foundation to build off of.

ETA:
I also can't buy your "corps want to keep guns out of the hands of drones" argument 're: building weapons. So they can't build them in your viewpoint, but Rating 6 Targeting autosofts exists? So, my Proletariat drone can't fix my jammed rifle, but it can beat me to death with it (Melee) or pick up a different gun a shoot me with it? Huh?
« Last Edit: <12-25-15/1524:44> by Herr Brackhaus »

ScytheKnight

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« Reply #119 on: <12-25-15/1525:58> »
The "Blow up Good" section of Run & Gun has a section on preparing drones to be mobile bombs.
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