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Kill Code

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Finstersang

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« Reply #120 on: <08-29-18/1309:33> »
Being able to use the Living Persona as the Master of a PAN might be usefull in some occasions (mostly, hiding things by lending your Sleaze Attribute to them), but I donīt think itīs a vital ability that TMīs desperately need out of chargen. Despite the Name, being a Master only means that you can lend out your Matrix attribute for defensive tests. For gear protection, you can just buy a good Commlink and use that as your official Master, without worrying that you get a Mark on yourself when someone Marks your stuff - and you can even buff it with Complex Forms! Not being able to get direct connection out or link-lock a target of chargen is/was a much more grave issue.

That being said: I donīt know if I miss something here (After all, there are a lot of open questions surrounding Master-Slave relationships, which might  be answered by Kill Code and/or Errata), but isnīt the ability to make your Living Persona a Slave of a PAN, which apparently only kosts 2 Karma, a lot more powerfull? If youīre more of an Attack TM, you could use this to get low on your own Willpower or even Intuition and then slave yourself to Rating 6 Link with a Sleaze dongle to essentially buff your Firewall and (passive) Sleaze? Itīs probably not a good long-term build, but a neat trick for street-level Technos.   
« Last Edit: <08-29-18/1313:30> by Finstersang »

Iron Serpent Prince

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« Reply #121 on: <08-29-18/1343:56> »
And yes, Kill Code has a techno quality that allows this now: One with the Matrix. At 2k, you can slave the Living Persona to a commlink or a deck as part of a PAN, or be the host at 8k, or both for 10k.

Wait, does this mean that Kill Code cleared up the silliness that a device that is used to form a Persona is no longer counted as a device and therefor can't be part of a PAN?

Or is this just Techno voodoo only?

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #122 on: <08-29-18/1356:09> »
Whatever it is, this quality certainly will ease the plight of many technos - just buy a high powered commlink with good firewall (might even be a good idea to mod it a bit) and let that take care of your defense. (Fairllight with virtual machine hardwired module and firewall +1 program, Sleaze Dongle and Smoke&Mirror certainly will be a welcome boost for the karma starved technos)
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Finstersang

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« Reply #123 on: <08-29-18/1404:31> »
Whatever it is, this quality certainly will ease the plight of many technos - just buy a high powered commlink with good firewall (might even be a good idea to mod it a bit) and let that take care of your defense. (Fairllight with virtual machine hardwired module and firewall +1 program, Sleaze Dongle and Smoke&Mirror certainly will be a welcome boost for the karma starved technos)

Yeah, but doesnīt this have a kind of... cheesy vibe to it? It certainly doesnīt shoot the powerlevel of TMs through the roof, since you wonīt likely dump-stat Willpower and Intuition, but it seems a bit cheap, IMO ???

Also, think about the implications for deckers (assuming that itīs possible for non-TMs to slave a Persona to a Master): You could do the same with your Cyberdeck and never care for your firewall settings anymore, as long as you donīt want to defuse a Databomb. 

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #124 on: <08-29-18/1421:01> »
Cheesy - I'd say this is a matter of taste  ;)

If for one would have no problem to let Technos have this little oddity exclusively. After all, deckers can use the perfect time swap trick with very little effort.
talk think matrix

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Finstersang

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« Reply #125 on: <08-29-18/1510:51> »
Cheesy - I'd say this is a matter of taste  ;)

If for one would have no problem to let Technos have this little oddity exclusively. After all, deckers can use the perfect time swap trick with very little effort.

Youīre right. Plus, the perfect time swap trick is also a bit cheesy, yet well-adapted. Canīt really blame the player to "exploit" the system, especially if that is literary what their Archetype is about ;D

Nevertherless: If Persona-Slaving this is a thing now, it would have quite an impact on playstyles and balancing. Not that this is a bad thing.   

Marcus

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« Reply #126 on: <08-29-18/1750:00> »
Did you actually mean cheesy? TMs need several power curve altering buffs. That’s whole d@mn point of this book. If this stuff doesn’t push the envelop Atleast as hard as FA then whole thing a failure. So belay any sort of cheesy talk. We have waited years for this fix. Pushing the TM into viability is the only thing that matter in this book embrace that reality or get out of the way.
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Iron Serpent Prince

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« Reply #127 on: <08-29-18/2348:30> »
The PDF dropped on DriveThruRPG.  Sneaky buggers entered in the same release date as Street Lethal, so it isn't the first item on a list sorted Newest to Oldest.

https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/244831/Shadowrun-Kill-Code-Advanced-Matrix-Rules?manufacturers_id=2216&filters=45486_0_0_0_45208

Now to scratch my digital claws through it...

EDITed to add::

Just finished my first read through.  I skipped most of the technomancer stuff, only because I'm not playing a techno later today.  ;)

It seems all of my unanswered questions are still unanswered.  I'll comment more on that later when I have time to write them out and explain them.  Examples:  Can you change a device's commcode?  Can anyone read your broadcasted SIN?  And if so, what info is on it?  Can your neighbor read the name off the SIN of the person that keeps visiting your wife?  Or husband, if that is how you roll?

There is some reinforced clinging to ideals that I think are silly, but they seem to be sticking around.  Example:  No device can be a PAN master and a PAN slave at the same time.  This forces small teams, or a bunch of stuff goes unprotected.

There is some good.  I particularly appreciate the fact that Deckers / Technos now have ways to protect their team's gear more than an unattended Fairlight Caliban can.

And of course there are some questions.  Example:  Is the Tag Matrix Action really limited to targets in a PAN?  So, as written it is not particularly useful if the opposing squad / team isn't linked?

If the Technomancer stuff doesn't blow me away, this is a neutral book to me.  Not a waste of money, but not exactly a must have either.

I'll post more later.
« Last Edit: <08-30-18/0137:59> by Iron Serpent Prince »

Marcus

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« Reply #128 on: <08-30-18/0135:13> »
hmmm.
Ok Better on the net, Natural Hacker, Groveler, ONE WITH THE MATRIX, Trust X and not Y/Trust Y and not X
The most useful out of the box best things in there


Overdrive (Any idea what happens when you start jacking cyber gear rating up? This can cause lot of issues) Jacking up someone limb can easily result in the limb being useless unless the rules are clarified.   Wired i think is hte only thing in the game that has the exception writen into it. So if you maybe your smartlink raiting 5 do you get +5 bonus to weapon checks?
Hyperthreading- fairly obvious
Sprite pet - pikachu will never leave your side again!
Probably the strongest things for TMs.


Paragon == 1/2 mentor spirit?

All hail the Shadow warrior new best in slot?

EARRS? Why? this seemed like a good idea to somebody?

Maybe. There a lot questions that need answers.
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Iron Serpent Prince

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« Reply #129 on: <08-30-18/1432:08> »
I didn't notice anything that directly confirms, or disproves, that a Persona device can't be a part of a PAN.

The existence of One with the Matrix quality indirectly confirms it though, unless I missed a specific passage under Technomancers that points out that their Living Personas can't be a part of a PAN.

The Reasonance Streams open up questions.  Oh so many questions.  As Marcus pointed out, can the Cyberadept's Override Power boost cybernetics without a rating?  And if so, what does it do?
Is the Machinists Daemon only Noise Reduction without at least the 8 point One with the Matrix quality?

Our GM says Kill Code does a lot for Technos* so I suspect if you are a table with a Technomancer it is worth looking into.
*I'm still avoiding that stuff so as to reduce my chances of getting confused in our game tonight.

Jack_Spade

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« Reply #130 on: <08-30-18/1706:06> »
I'm only on page 100, but so far I have ideas for three new setups and one of my favorite tricks with Agents has been neutered.  :'(

I should really stop posting exploits where rule designers can read them...
talk think matrix

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Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

Marcus

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« Reply #131 on: <08-30-18/1714:19> »
Adzling you had for knowledge in of this and let it go? I hope errata team is ready to get busy on this book. After further cosideration clearly sourcerer And technoshaman are useable the machines careeras the bane of riggers everywhere is nice not super effective. Cyberadept is only going to be sustainable with modular wear. Which  reduce the cool factor too Much tomorrow worth while for me.Though a bunch issues have to addressed questions are going to require some meaningful rulings.
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Jack_Spade

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« Reply #132 on: <08-30-18/1736:51> »
Oh, one commentary on Groveller: Whoever thought that 4 datachips are equivalent in cost to one reagent: You were wrong: Datachips cost 5 Nuyen per 10 chips.
This one quality turns drain into a non issue. Time to puppeteer the drek out of every device on the matrix...
talk think matrix

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Revenant Kynos Isaint Rex

adzling

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« Reply #133 on: <08-30-18/1743:12> »
marcus im not sure what you're referring to?

FYI I had some input/ review of some of the new matrix actions that do not require marks.
that's about it.
everything else is news to me.

Jack I agree that datachips = reagents seems totally borked to me. I just got the book this morning myself so will start reviewing tonight.

meantime if anyone has things that seem OP, borked or nonsensical post them here so we can queue them up for errata.

PiXeL01

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« Reply #134 on: <08-30-18/1833:19> »
The errata team did not have access to the entire book, only a single section.
A single author has provided us with insight in some publications before the final product was submitted a few times in the past but we have never seen an entire product before.
We don’t do play testing I’m afraid.
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