[Shinobi Killfist]

So the free hit you may get for having a 6 essence.  Does that increase the drain of the spell. I can see the term net being used for either interpretation. So I'm casting improved attribute, I get 3 hits and use all 3 plus my free hit as the target has a 6 essence, so I have 4 total hits. The spell is base drain 3 +1 for each net hit past the first. Is it drain 5 or 6?

[Xenon]

Spells in this edition typically have a fixed drain damage value. Heal, for example have a drain DV of 3. No matter the amount of net hits you get on the spellcasting test.

Increase attribute work a little bit different in that if you wish to increase the attribute by +1 then you will have a drain damage value of 3. By +2, DV of 4. By +3, DV of 5. By +4 (which is max), DV of 6.

Number of hits or number of net hits on the original spell casting test doesn't matter (but if you don't have enough net hits you might not be allowed to choose to increase the attribute as high).

Just because you get many net hits does not automatically mean that you get a high drain DV. You choose how big the increase should be and this will in turn set the drain DV.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

I read it the same way as Xenon did.

A "free" hit in this context doesn't come without the accompanying DV increase, because the DV increase isn't a "cost".

[Shinobi Killfist]

That is what I felt they may be trying to say, but the term net hits threw me. I'd consider your 1 hit from having a 6 essence your base hits, and the hits you add via die rolling the net hits. On the low essence side it makes more sense as a net hit. As you have a threshold of lets say 2 to bump your 3 essence decker. so you spend 3 hits and 1 net hit to bump is logic by 1.  But when your threshold is -1, it is weird to think of that -1 threshold as a net hit.

[Michael Chandra]

It's a test with threshold (-1~5). If you face a threshold of -1, you basically get a 'free' hit because your net hits equal your hits + 1.

[Shinobi Killfist]

It's a test with threshold (-1~5). If you face a threshold of -1, you basically get a 'free' hit because your net hits equal your hits + 1.

Yes, but you aren't adding or applying a hit you just have it.

[Sir Ludwig]

Killfist,

I align with Xenon, SSDR, and Michael Chandra. 

However, you might be missing the forest for the trees.

Just look at this like math or calculus. 

Essence is a variable.
You Sorcery roll is a variable   

(Sorcery test successes) - (5-essence) = X     

If I have an essence 6, then my threshold is -1.  Meaning the  "-(-1)" part becomes "+1". 

If I cast the spell, and I get 0 (Zero/No hits), then doing the math the same as I would any other essence value gives me 1 net hit. 

Best,
SL

[Shinobi Killfist]

I don't disagree with the end result of what they are saying, I'm just saying the wording is weird to me. I don't consider myself to be applying a net hit if its just there from the getgo. Like i said i think that's the intent of the rule and how I'd run it at my tables, but the wording just is weird to get there.

[markelphoenix]

I don't disagree with the end result of what they are saying, I'm just saying the wording is weird to me. I don't consider myself to be applying a net hit if its just there from the getgo. Like i said i think that's the intent of the rule and how I'd run it at my tables, but the wording just is weird to get there.

Odd or peculiar wording that isn't 100% clear or obvious in 6e! I am shocked! Shocked I say.

[Xenon]

Odd or peculiar wording that isn't 100% clear or obvious ...

Not sure how you can possible read this in another way than I posted above?

...in 6e!

Wait, what? Are you claiming that editing was better in 5th edition...?

[Lormyr]

Wait, what? Are you claiming that editing was better in 5th edition...?

I believe it was, though both are legitimately bad. It's an order of magnitude thing for me. I hold them more accountable for SR6 since they apparently chose not to learn from SR5.

[Shinobi Killfist]

Odd or peculiar wording that isn't 100% clear or obvious ...

Not sure how you can possible read this in another way than I posted above?

Because that's a definition of net? Net is after taxes/expenses etc.  So yes net hits for these spells makes sense when you have a threshold of 2, my hits past the cost of 2 is my net hits. But if I start with a hit and every hit i roll adds to that, my hits past that initial hit is the net hits. Just as the 2 threshold was what I needed to break in order to get a hit the -1 is as well.

Since you are applying hits I think they are going for what you are suggesting. But by using the term applying net hits it skews things as that initial hit can be seen not as a net hit but part of the gross hits.

You made $20 but it cost you $10 to make it, net earnings $10. You start with $5 and earn another $20, net earnings is $20 not $25.

[Xenon]

SR6 p. 35 Do I want to roll high or low?
If you got more hits than you need to succeed in a test, the hits above the minimum amount needed to succeed are called net hits.

SR6 p. 137 Increase Attribute
The caster rolls a Sorcery + Magic (5 – Essence) test. They can select how many net hits they actually apply to the target to increase the selected attribute, at a rate of 1 point of increase per net hit (maximum bonus +4); for each net hit applied beyond the first, the Drain Value of the spell increases by 1.


Example 1:
Your Sorcery + Magic rolls 7 hits.
Subject have Essence of 3 which give you a threshold of 2 to be successful.
You have 5 'hits above the minimum amount needed to succeed' which mean your test have 5 net hits.
If you choose to actually apply 2 of your 5 net hits then you will increase the subject's attribute by 2 points.
Since you applied 1 point beyond the first, the Drain Value of the spell increases from 3 to 4.


Example 2:
Your Sorcery + Magic rolls 7 hits.
Subject have Essence of 5 which give you a threshold of 0 to be successful.
You have 7 'hits above the minimum amount needed to succeed' which mean your test have 7 net hits.
If you choose to actually apply 2 of your 7 net hits then you will increase the subject's attribute by 2 points.
Since you applied 1 point beyond the first, the Drain Value of the spell increases from 3 to 4.


Example 3:
Your Sorcery + Magic rolls 7 hits.
Subject have Essence of 6 which give you a threshold of -1 to be successful.
You have 8 'hits above the minimum amount needed to succeed' which mean your test have 8 net hits.
If you choose to actually apply 2 of your 8 net hits then you will increase the subject's attribute by 2 points.
Since you applied 1 point beyond the first, the Drain Value of the spell increases from 3 to 4.


As you can see, just because you get many net hits does not automatically mean that you get a high drain DV. You choose how big the increase should be and this will in turn set the drain DV.